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Viejo Vizcacha
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 Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:01 am Post subject: Is a sense of decency a competitive disadvantage for lefties |
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I have been living in Canada for 23 years, and I cannot remember any
period of 6 weeks when teh Canadian dollar lost 20% of its value
against the US dollar. Yet, the opposition does not even mention it.
Of course, I do not think that this is caused by the Conservative
government, but what I am absolutely sure is that if the Liberals had
won, we would see the establishment and all conservative politicians
arguing that the Liberal government has brought incertitude to the
markets which cause the drop in the value of the Canadian currency.
The same happens in lots of cases. Bush's wife killed a teenage boy
when she was young while failing to stop at a stop sign, yet this was
never mentioned by the rivals or the press. Yet, the fact that Obama
once sat at a meeting with someone who violently opposed the Vietnam
war is still being dragged on. However, the involvement of McCain in
the Keating Five affair was never mentioned by the Democrats.
Harper justified the killing of a Canadian soldier in Lebanon by
Israel. I cannot even start to imagine what would have been said if
the leader of the NDP had attempted to explain, let alone justify, the
killing of Canadian soldiers by Afghans fed up with having their
weddings being bombed by NATO. Harper lipsang the words of John Howard
justifying the rape of Iraq by western armies, and it was news a
couple of days. Yet, I cannot imagine the reaction of media and
Conservative politicians if Stephane Dion had quoted Jacques Chirac,
or the leader of the NDP had quoted Chavez.
Why does the left let these murderous scum get away with so much?
VV |
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Archie
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:38 am Post subject: Re: Is a sense of decency a competitive disadvantage for lef |
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On Oct 28, 9:01 pm, Viejo Vizcacha <nats_ugly...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I have been living in Canada for 23 years, and I cannot remember any
period of 6 weeks when teh Canadian dollar lost 20% of its value
against the US dollar. Yet, the opposition does not even mention it.
Of course, I do not think that this is caused by the Conservative
government, but what I am absolutely sure is that if the Liberals had
won, we would see the establishment and all conservative politicians
arguing that the Liberal government has brought incertitude to the
markets which cause the drop in the value of the Canadian currency.
The same happens in lots of cases. Bush's wife killed a teenage boy
when she was young while failing to stop at a stop sign, yet this was
never mentioned by the rivals or the press. Yet, the fact that Obama
once sat at a meeting with someone who violently opposed the Vietnam
war is still being dragged on. However, the involvement of McCain in
the Keating Five affair was never mentioned by the Democrats.
Harper justified the killing of a Canadian soldier in Lebanon by
Israel. I cannot even start to imagine what would have been said if
the leader of the NDP had attempted to explain, let alone justify, the
killing of Canadian soldiers by Afghans fed up with having their
weddings being bombed by NATO. Harper lipsang the words of John Howard
justifying the rape of Iraq by western armies, and it was news a
couple of days. Yet, I cannot imagine the reaction of media and
Conservative politicians if Stephane Dion had quoted Jacques Chirac,
or the leader of the NDP had quoted Chavez.
Why does the left let these murderous scum get away with so much?
VV
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It's like the boy scouts vs. the hells angels.
What's important are principles and logic. It's our strength.
Their strengths are fear and bullshit. |
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Ken
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Is a sense of decency a competitive disadvantage for lef |
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Viejo Vizcacha <nats_uglyman@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Why does the left let these murderous scum get away with so much?
The left in Canada is divided at the moment. But you knew that already. |
Even the dreaded Bloc Quebecois hold more to leftist principals than they do
of the Conservatives, who were blown to bits in the 1993 election because
they hadn't yet united with the (far right) reform party.
It's not mob rule, that's for sure. There are the far left, the NDP, who
attract votes away from the closer to the middle Liberals. And the Liberals
have been forced out of their position for one of two reasons, depending on
which point of view. Have the Canadian Conservatives moved left, closer to
the middle (which I think is evident by their change in position since the
election of 2004 and even 2006), or has Harper managed somehow to move the
ideology of Canadians further to the right? Some party members I know think
that is the case. I regard them as friends and colleagues at work, but also
think that they're barking mad.
The bottom line is that most Canadians did not vote for the sole right wing
party in the country, but the Conservatives still managed to hold on to their
minority position in our parliamentary democracy. |
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mimus
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Is a sense of decency a competitive disadvantage for lef |
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On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:01:32 -0700, Viejo Vizcacha wrote:
| Quote: | I have been living in Canada for 23 years, and I cannot remember any
period of 6 weeks when teh Canadian dollar lost 20% of its value
against the US dollar. Yet, the opposition does not even mention it.
Of course, I do not think that this is caused by the Conservative
government, but what I am absolutely sure is that if the Liberals had
won, we would see the establishment and all conservative politicians
arguing that the Liberal government has brought incertitude to the
markets which cause the drop in the value of the Canadian currency.
The same happens in lots of cases. Bush's wife killed a teenage boy
when she was young while failing to stop at a stop sign, yet this was
never mentioned by the rivals or the press. Yet, the fact that Obama
once sat at a meeting with someone who violently opposed the Vietnam
war is still being dragged on. However, the involvement of McCain in
the Keating Five affair was never mentioned by the Democrats.
Harper justified the killing of a Canadian soldier in Lebanon by
Israel. I cannot even start to imagine what would have been said if
the leader of the NDP had attempted to explain, let alone justify, the
killing of Canadian soldiers by Afghans fed up with having their
weddings being bombed by NATO. Harper lipsang the words of John Howard
justifying the rape of Iraq by western armies, and it was news a
couple of days. Yet, I cannot imagine the reaction of media and
Conservative politicians if Stephane Dion had quoted Jacques Chirac,
or the leader of the NDP had quoted Chavez.
Why does the left let these murderous scum get away with so much?
|
Relax, there's plenty of leftist low-lifes, too.
Just imagine, if you will, the horde of psychobabbling totalitarians
whose knee-jerk reactions to disagreement are to find their opponents "in
denial" . . . .
Not to mention the "leftist" 'tards and crooks who confuse capitalism and
plutocracy (there's lots of them on "the Right", too).
--
Conservatism = plutocracy + theocracy + hypocrisy
Liberalism = plutocracy + psychosociocracy + hypocrisy
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8878
http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/supporting/2006/PSI.gasandoilspec.062606.pdf |
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Ken
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Is a sense of decency a competitive disadvantage for lef |
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Archie <akenn100@googlemail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
It's like the boy scouts vs. the hells angels.
What's important are principles and logic. It's our strength.
Their strengths are fear and bullshit.
Not being a big Harper supporter at all, but a realist all the same. I |
would be astounded, as I believe that most people would be, if Harper
suddenly pulled out his Horns and Trident, and proclaimed abortion to be
illegal, same sex marriage to be illegal (prayer in our public institutions?)
and ran with the "fear and bull shit" some people are still claiming that is
his "secret agenda" from 2004.
That was just a little "fear and bull shit" too.
Just Liberal "fear and bull shit" at the time.
I can't see that being the case, even if he did earn a majority. |
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Archie
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Is a sense of decency a competitive disadvantage for lef |
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On Oct 28, 11:48 pm, Ken <kenwil...@shaw.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | Archie <akenn...@googlemail.com> wrote:
It's like the boy scouts vs. the hells angels.
What's important are principles and logic. It's our strength.
Their strengths are fear and bullshit.
Not being a big Harper supporter at all, but a realist all the same. I
would be astounded, as I believe that most people would be, if Harper
suddenly pulled out his Horns and Trident, and proclaimed abortion to be
illegal, same sex marriage to be illegal (prayer in our public institutions?)
and ran with the "fear and bull shit" some people are still claiming that is
his "secret agenda" from 2004.
That was just a little "fear and bull shit" too.
Just Liberal "fear and bull shit" at the time.
I can't see that being the case, even if he did earn a majority.
|
An example is Harper's crime and punishment stance. There is no way he
could justify his amplification of hard time for youth through
rational arhuements. He instead has to appeal to the emotional fear
based side of his constituency - lock em up and throw away the key
kind of mentality. |
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Viejo Vizcacha
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject: Re: Is a sense of decency a competitive disadvantage for lef |
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On Oct 28, 11:38 pm, Archie <akenn...@googlemail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Oct 28, 9:01 pm, Viejo Vizcacha <nats_ugly...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have been living in Canada for 23 years, and I cannot remember any
period of 6 weeks when teh Canadian dollar lost 20% of its value
against the US dollar. Yet, the opposition does not even mention it.
Of course, I do not think that this is caused by the Conservative
government, but what I am absolutely sure is that if the Liberals had
won, we would see the establishment and all conservative politicians
arguing that the Liberal government has brought incertitude to the
markets which cause the drop in the value of the Canadian currency.
The same happens in lots of cases. Bush's wife killed a teenage boy
when she was young while failing to stop at a stop sign, yet this was
never mentioned by the rivals or the press. Yet, the fact that Obama
once sat at a meeting with someone who violently opposed the Vietnam
war is still being dragged on. However, the involvement of McCain in
the Keating Five affair was never mentioned by the Democrats.
Harper justified the killing of a Canadian soldier in Lebanon by
Israel. I cannot even start to imagine what would have been said if
the leader of the NDP had attempted to explain, let alone justify, the
killing of Canadian soldiers by Afghans fed up with having their
weddings being bombed by NATO. Harper lipsang the words of John Howard
justifying the rape of Iraq by western armies, and it was news a
couple of days. Yet, I cannot imagine the reaction of media and
Conservative politicians if Stephane Dion had quoted Jacques Chirac,
or the leader of the NDP had quoted Chavez.
Why does the left let these murderous scum get away with so much?
VV
It's like the boy scouts vs. the hells angels.
What's important are principles and logic. It's our strength.
Their strengths are fear and bullshit.
|
Fair enough. But I think it would be good to also add some strength to
the argument. When the consequence of playing fair is to end up with a
PM that would have Canadian soldiers killing Iraqis, a PM that would
certainly bring back the death penalty, and would make access to
abortion more difficult, and plenty more if he had the majority, then
one should at least consider some change in tactics.
VV |
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Archie
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Is a sense of decency a competitive disadvantage for lef |
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On Oct 29, 7:45 pm, Viejo Vizcacha <nats_ugly...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Oct 28, 11:38 pm, Archie <akenn...@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Oct 28, 9:01 pm, Viejo Vizcacha <nats_ugly...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have been living in Canada for 23 years, and I cannot remember any
period of 6 weeks when teh Canadian dollar lost 20% of its value
against the US dollar. Yet, the opposition does not even mention it.
Of course, I do not think that this is caused by the Conservative
government, but what I am absolutely sure is that if the Liberals had
won, we would see the establishment and all conservative politicians
arguing that the Liberal government has brought incertitude to the
markets which cause the drop in the value of the Canadian currency.
The same happens in lots of cases. Bush's wife killed a teenage boy
when she was young while failing to stop at a stop sign, yet this was
never mentioned by the rivals or the press. Yet, the fact that Obama
once sat at a meeting with someone who violently opposed the Vietnam
war is still being dragged on. However, the involvement of McCain in
the Keating Five affair was never mentioned by the Democrats.
Harper justified the killing of a Canadian soldier in Lebanon by
Israel. I cannot even start to imagine what would have been said if
the leader of the NDP had attempted to explain, let alone justify, the
killing of Canadian soldiers by Afghans fed up with having their
weddings being bombed by NATO. Harper lipsang the words of John Howard
justifying the rape of Iraq by western armies, and it was news a
couple of days. Yet, I cannot imagine the reaction of media and
Conservative politicians if Stephane Dion had quoted Jacques Chirac,
or the leader of the NDP had quoted Chavez.
Why does the left let these murderous scum get away with so much?
VV
It's like the boy scouts vs. the hells angels.
What's important are principles and logic. It's our strength.
Their strengths are fear and bullshit.
Fair enough. But I think it would be good to also add some strength to
the argument. When the consequence of playing fair is to end up with a
PM that would have Canadian soldiers killing Iraqis, a PM that would
certainly bring back the death penalty, and would make access to
abortion more difficult, and plenty more if he had the majority, then
one should at least consider some change in tactics.
VV-
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Agreed. The biggest weakness of the left is sincerity and an
overpowering demand for justice. Strengths AND weaknesses.
Another weakness is the splintering and intolerance of other leftists
that are not perfect and followers of the party line.
As part of the general clump we call the left - I agree with you.
We have to, eventually, take the whole idea of taking over seriously.
That might come sooner rather than later and when it does, we have to
discuss tactics and the extent to which we engage in dirty fighting. |
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