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Lobby Dosser
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 Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Planet hating Xtians want to destroy world |
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<gb@amusenet.com> wrote in message
news:u5d9i45q5qkl0lpvdddulivqqoj93sgn33@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:41:16 -0800 (PST), lein
jan.leine.weber@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 19, 4:24 pm, g...@amusenet.com wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:19:35 -0800 (PST), lein
jan.leine.we...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 18, 8:09 pm, g...@amusenet.com wrote:
I am responsible for paying the bill to the contractor. The
contractor ios responsible for vetting whomever he hires. I have no
legal standing to have any part of that conversation.
So you hired a contractor to do work without a contract for the work?
Heh! There are occasions, lein, when your Imagination Neuron takes
over the rest of your alleged Brain.
Now where do you come up with something stupid like that?
A contract would give you a vehicle, and thus legal standing to
require all workers brought on your property be legally allowed to
work in this great country of ours.
I know of No standard contract with such language. And the
contractual proposal I did sign with the contractor does not contain
it. Not would demanding such a thing work out regardless.
The immigration status of the contractor's employees is His matter to
deal with - not mine. I am not an INS or an ICE agent.
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Then you are accessory. |
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Lobby Dosser
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Planet hating Xtians want to destroy world |
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"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
news:lpd9i4186vmt8i32rpsvolaiuisc9f6ah3@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:58:50 -0800, gb@amusenet.com wrote in
alt.atheism:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:41:16 -0800 (PST), lein
jan.leine.weber@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 19, 4:24 pm, g...@amusenet.com wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:19:35 -0800 (PST), lein
jan.leine.we...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 18, 8:09 pm, g...@amusenet.com wrote:
I am responsible for paying the bill to the contractor. The
contractor ios responsible for vetting whomever he hires. I have no
legal standing to have any part of that conversation.
So you hired a contractor to do work without a contract for the work?
Heh! There are occasions, lein, when your Imagination Neuron takes
over the rest of your alleged Brain.
Now where do you come up with something stupid like that?
A contract would give you a vehicle, and thus legal standing to
require all workers brought on your property be legally allowed to
work in this great country of ours.
I know of No standard contract with such language. And the
contractual proposal I did sign with the contractor does not contain
it. Not would demanding such a thing work out regardless.
The immigration status of the contractor's employees is His matter to
deal with - not mine. I am not an INS or an ICE agent.
It doesn't always work that way, particularly if the Feds can show that
the entire purpose of the "contract" and "outsourcing" was to try to
hide the criminal complicity between the parties.
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Yeehaw!! |
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Lobby Dosser
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Planet hating Xtians want to destroy world |
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<gb@amusenet.com> wrote in message
news:2ug9i41okku8pe10snuk2sgjvm821eb3dg@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:03:30 -0600, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:58:50 -0800, gb@amusenet.com wrote in
alt.atheism:
The immigration status of the contractor's employees is His matter to
deal with - not mine. I am not an INS or an ICE agent.
It doesn't always work that way, particularly if the Feds can show that
the entire purpose of the "contract" and "outsourcing" was to try to
hide the criminal complicity between the parties.
If there is a Criminal Complicity, then it's the employer's matter to
handle. I hire the contractor -- not the employees. I have no
standing and no expertise as to which people the contractor should
hire.
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It's Your Contract. You Signed it. |
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Lobby Dosser
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Planet hating Xtians want to destroy world |
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"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
news:0cj9i49t0p2jar453cqjo1l8no6baf97je@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:07:20 -0800, gb@amusenet.com wrote in
alt.atheism:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:03:30 -0600, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:58:50 -0800, gb@amusenet.com wrote in
alt.atheism:
The immigration status of the contractor's employees is His matter to
deal with - not mine. I am not an INS or an ICE agent.
It doesn't always work that way, particularly if the Feds can show that
the entire purpose of the "contract" and "outsourcing" was to try to
hide the criminal complicity between the parties.
If there is a Criminal Complicity, then it's the employer's matter to
handle. I hire the contractor -- not the employees. I have no
standing and no expertise as to which people the contractor should
hire.
The conspiracy is between the person in your position and the contractor
who is hiring the improperly documented workers. It has been a common
practice for property management companies to outsource their cleaning
to folks who are hiring undocumented workers. The Feds have managed to
show that the property manager knew that the cleaning company had hired
illegals and that the whole purpose of the outsourcing was to try to
hide the fact that the illegals were being hired. As I recall, Walmart
was also caught doing something similar.
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You recall correctly. Perhaps a visit from ICE would convince Dondi. |
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chibiabos
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Planet hating Xtians want to destroy world |
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In article <gfvkr4$vet$1@news.motzarella.org>, Lobby Dosser
<dondi@invalid.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | gb@amusenet.com> wrote in message
news:4ar5i4lp7ib6nm25vs62v368q3go7cter7@4ax.com...
On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 07:35:49 -0800 (PST), Big Dave
david.haapala@gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds like a nice guy, this Jesus...
One of them certainly seems to be. He's the foreman of a crew now
Illegals, no doubt.
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That fact that you base this giant leap of logic on one guy's name says
more about you than it does about any issue of legality. What if the
foreman's name was Mohammed? Gunter? Giuseppe? Francois? Gottfried? Or
[*shudder*] Lobby?
There are far more Hispanic legals in this country than illegals. Get
over it, you racist fuck.
-chib
--
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Planet hating Xtians want to destroy world |
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On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:11:16 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
<dondi@invalid.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | gb@amusenet.com> wrote in message
news:ksa9i4htl2ibihigj2id7rkngvhpgfvnqc@4ax.com...
There's nothing Willful about not knowing how to check immigration
documents, and it's not Ignorance to be aware that I have no legal
right to demand such documents.
You certainly have a right to be assured in writing that the employer does
not employ illegals.
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Why? I presume that the contractor I hire is complying with the law.
I have no reason to presume otherwise. He certainly checked out with
the BBB and the OCCB -- and I Did check both of those prior to handing
over the $3k deposit.
If perhaps You have some reason to presume otherwise, hie thyself on
down to the INS/ICE office and give them Your evidence.
| Quote: | You are an Ignorant Wimp.
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The name-calling is cute, but fact of the matter is -- Ya Got Nuthin!
Again. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Planet hating Xtians want to destroy world |
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On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 20:40:48 -0600, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:07:20 -0800, gb@amusenet.com wrote in
alt.atheism:
If there is a Criminal Complicity, then it's the employer's matter to
handle. I hire the contractor -- not the employees. I have no
standing and no expertise as to which people the contractor should
hire.
The conspiracy is between the person in your position and the contractor
who is hiring the improperly documented workers.
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There is no such Conspiracy. I have precisely No Actual Evidence that
he is doing any such thing.
If you have such Evidence -- since you're the one making the
accusation -- then hie thyself down to your local INS/ICE office and
present it.
| Quote: | It has been a common
practice for property management companies to outsource their cleaning
to folks who are hiring undocumented workers.
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Ibid, as above. Just present the Actual Evidence.
| Quote: | The Feds have managed to
show that the property manager knew that the cleaning company had hired
illegals and that the whole purpose of the outsourcing was to try to
hide the fact that the illegals were being hired. As I recall, Walmart
was also caught doing something similar.
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But none of the WalMart customers were held liable for such hirings,
and the same goes for those who rent properties.
The problem, if one actually Does exist, lies solely with the person
doing the hiring. I do not hire the individual workers. The
waterproofing service contractor does that. I hire the contractor. My
only obligation is to pay him.
I have No legal obligation to vet his employees. That's entirely His
bidniss to attend to, and if He screws up, the penalties fall solely
on him -- not on his customers. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Planet hating Xtians want to destroy world |
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On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:13:36 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
<dondi@invalid.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | It's Your Contract. You Signed it.
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And I am bound solely by the terms therein.
There is Nothing therein that discusses my having any obligation to
determine whether his employees are legal or not.
That is His obligation - not mine. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Planet hating Xtians want to destroy world |
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On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:12:29 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
<dondi@invalid.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | gb@amusenet.com> wrote in message
news:u5d9i45q5qkl0lpvdddulivqqoj93sgn33@4ax.com...
The immigration status of the contractor's employees is His matter to
deal with - not mine. I am not an INS or an ICE agent.
Then you are accessory.
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Heh! Love it how you amateur lawyers try to practice law.
Revisit the discussion of an accessory, either before or after the
fact. What are the elements of such a crime?
I can quite assure you that my situation does not have those elements
in it. I would have to Know that his employees were illegal. I
don't. I have no obligation to determine that they are -- not under
Any statute out there.
That's his obligation. If they are legal, then he's off without a
problem. If they are not, then the penalty falls entirely on him --
and Not on his customers.
You are, yet again, Wrong in Fact and in Law. |
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hal lillywhite
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:53 am Post subject: Re: Planet hating Xtians want to destroy world |
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On Nov 19, 2:20 am, Peter Gibson <pe...@gibson.localhost> wrote:
| Quote: | ITS ABOUT DESTROYING THE ABILITY TO RAISE FUNDS FOR THE WORLD THROUGH
CARBON CREDITS AND HIGHER TAXES. THOSE EARTH MURDERERS DONT WANT TO PAY
AN EXTRA FEW CENTS ON THEIR ENERGY BILLS BUT ARE MORE THAN HAPPY TO FORK
OVER MILLIONS TO THIER DAMNED CHURCHES!
ITS OUR TURN TO HAVE SOME MONEY, ISAY MAKE CARBON CREDITS MANDATORY AND
REQUIRE EVERYONE TO BUY THEM, AND MAKE DENIERS BUY MORE OF THEM. TREAT
THEM LIKE HOLOCOST DENIERS IN GERMANY AND PUT THEM IN PRISON. SET A FEW
EXAMPLES LIKE THAT AND THEY WILL SHUT UP!
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So it's about money and power, not saving the world. What a surprise. |
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Bill Shatzer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:30 am Post subject: Re: Planet hating Xtians want to destroy world |
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gb@amusenet.com wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:12:29 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
dondi@invalid.invalid> wrote:
gb@amusenet.com> wrote in message
news:u5d9i45q5qkl0lpvdddulivqqoj93sgn33@4ax.com...
The immigration status of the contractor's employees is His matter to
deal with - not mine. I am not an INS or an ICE agent.
Then you are accessory.
Heh! Love it how you amateur lawyers try to practice law.
Revisit the discussion of an accessory, either before or after the
fact. What are the elements of such a crime?
I can quite assure you that my situation does not have those elements
in it. I would have to Know that his employees were illegal. I
don't. I have no obligation to determine that they are -- not under
Any statute out there.
That's his obligation. If they are legal, then he's off without a
problem. If they are not, then the penalty falls entirely on him --
and Not on his customers.
You are, yet again, Wrong in Fact and in Law.
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I rather wonder whether Lobby checks the immigration status of the
employees at the Foster Farms processing facility before purchasing his
package of chicken breasts?
Peace and justice, |
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Lobby Dosser
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Planet hating Xtians want to destroy world |
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<gb@amusenet.com> wrote in message
news:3r3bi4himfm33qmu46vsgkqltv6kb0jumf@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:11:16 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
dondi@invalid.invalid> wrote:
gb@amusenet.com> wrote in message
news:ksa9i4htl2ibihigj2id7rkngvhpgfvnqc@4ax.com...
There's nothing Willful about not knowing how to check immigration
documents, and it's not Ignorance to be aware that I have no legal
right to demand such documents.
You certainly have a right to be assured in writing that the employer does
not employ illegals.
Why? I presume that the contractor I hire is complying with the law.
I have no reason to presume otherwise. He certainly checked out with
the BBB and the OCCB -- and I Did check both of those prior to handing
over the $3k deposit.
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WOW! The BBB and OCCB. Two Protection Rackets.
| Quote: |
If perhaps You have some reason to presume otherwise, hie thyself on
down to the INS/ICE office and give them Your evidence.
You are an Ignorant Wimp.
The name-calling is cute, but fact of the matter is -- Ya Got Nuthin!
Again.
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Well, no. We know you don't know how to write a contract to protect
yourself. |
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Lobby Dosser
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: Re: Planet hating Xtians want to destroy world |
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<gb@amusenet.com> wrote in message
news:bu3bi4dqppahord91hkks0skig4jngkeum@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 20:40:48 -0600, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:07:20 -0800, gb@amusenet.com wrote in
alt.atheism:
If there is a Criminal Complicity, then it's the employer's matter to
handle. I hire the contractor -- not the employees. I have no
standing and no expertise as to which people the contractor should
hire.
The conspiracy is between the person in your position and the contractor
who is hiring the improperly documented workers.
There is no such Conspiracy. I have precisely No Actual Evidence that
he is doing any such thing.
If you have such Evidence -- since you're the one making the
accusation -- then hie thyself down to your local INS/ICE office and
present it.
It has been a common
practice for property management companies to outsource their cleaning
to folks who are hiring undocumented workers.
Ibid, as above. Just present the Actual Evidence.
The Feds have managed to
show that the property manager knew that the cleaning company had hired
illegals and that the whole purpose of the outsourcing was to try to
hide the fact that the illegals were being hired. As I recall, Walmart
was also caught doing something similar.
But none of the WalMart customers were held liable for such hirings,
and the same goes for those who rent properties.
The problem, if one actually Does exist, lies solely with the person
doing the hiring. I do not hire the individual workers. The
waterproofing service contractor does that. I hire the contractor. My
only obligation is to pay him.
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That's what WalMart said.
| Quote: |
I have No legal obligation to vet his employees. That's entirely His
bidniss to attend to, and if He screws up, the penalties fall solely
on him -- not on his customers. |
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Lobby Dosser
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Planet hating Xtians want to destroy world |
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<gb@amusenet.com> wrote in message
news:s34bi4l9bbmr2h3q5fqp65ego1p2nv1370@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:13:36 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
dondi@invalid.invalid> wrote:
It's Your Contract. You Signed it.
And I am bound solely by the terms therein.
There is Nothing therein that discusses my having any obligation to
determine whether his employees are legal or not.
That is His obligation - not mine.
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Does it say that in the contract? |
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Lobby Dosser
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Planet hating Xtians want to destroy world |
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<gb@amusenet.com> wrote in message
news:754bi4hgsdp2qog6un41fk6c1gn8pvdrqd@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:12:29 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
dondi@invalid.invalid> wrote:
gb@amusenet.com> wrote in message
news:u5d9i45q5qkl0lpvdddulivqqoj93sgn33@4ax.com...
The immigration status of the contractor's employees is His matter to
deal with - not mine. I am not an INS or an ICE agent.
Then you are accessory.
Heh! Love it how you amateur lawyers try to practice law.
Revisit the discussion of an accessory, either before or after the
fact. What are the elements of such a crime?
I can quite assure you that my situation does not have those elements
in it. I would have to Know that his employees were illegal. I
don't. I have no obligation to determine that they are -- not under
Any statute out there.
That's his obligation. If they are legal, then he's off without a
problem. If they are not, then the penalty falls entirely on him --
and Not on his customers.
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These days? You can't be too sure. See Wal-Mart. |
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