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B J Foster · Guest

A reasonably objective documentary by Der Spiegel:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,573604,00.html
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-35148.html#backToArticle=573604

Topaz · Guest

Democracy is a cruel joke when the Jews control the media.

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation
with the average voter."
Winston Churchill

"Jewry rules from behind the mask of democracy. What one calls
democracy today is concealed Jewish domination. Jews determine what
happens in the democratic states"
Julius Streicher, Der Stürmer, #34/1939.

"A couple of weeks ago I quoted a few sentences from a book published
in 1928 titled Propaganda, by ... Edward Bernays. Today I'll read to
you an expanded set of excerpts from Bernays' book to give you a
little more of the gist of his message. I quote:

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits
and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic
society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society
constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of
our country.

"We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes are formed, our
ideas suggested largely by men we have never heard of. This is a
logical result of the way in which our democratic society is
organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner
if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. . . .

"Whatever attitude one chooses to take toward this condition, it
remains a fact that in almost every act of our daily lives, whether in
the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our
ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of
persons . . . who understand the mental processes and social patterns
of the masses.
It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind, who
harness old social forces and contrive new ways to bind and guide the
world. . .

"No serious sociologist believes any longer that the voice of the
people expresses any divine or especially wise and lofty idea. The
voice of the people expresses the mind of the people, and that mind is
made up for it by the group leaders in whom it believes and by those
persons who understand the manipulation of public opinion. . . .

"Whether in the problem of getting elected to office or in the problem
of interpreting and popularizing new issues, or in the problem of
making the day-to-day administration of public affairs a vital part of
the community life, the use of propaganda, carefully adjusted to the
mentality of the masses, is an essential adjunct of political life." -
end of quote -

I should mention that Bernays' book is not profound or especially
valuable in itself. It merely states a few self-evident facts about
the way in which a modern society works. For the person interested in
propaganda, far more useful books are available. The fact that Bernays
was a Jew is not even especially relevant here except to emphasize
that propaganda, the mass media, psychology, and the manipulation of
others always have been subjects of special interest to the Jews. It
is not for nothing that they are as thick in these fields today as
they were in the time of Bernays and Freud. The reason I chose
Bernays' book to quote is that it provides a more concise and clear
summary, in a few quotable paragraphs, of the role of propaganda in
modern life than most other
books on the subject.

If I were you I wouldn't even waste time trying to hunt down a copy of
Bernays' book. All it does is state the obvious: namely, that the
whole concept of democracy is meaningless in an age where a few people
have in their hands the mechanism for controlling the attitudes and
opinions of a majority of the electorate. And Bernays also takes the
disingenuous position that not only is this control a fact of life,
but it is a good thing; it is necessary to control and regiment the
thinking of the public in order to avoid chaos, and it can only lead
us to greater progress and prosperity. He simply glosses over the
question of
who should exercise this control and what their motives should be.

If you really want to study the subject of propaganda, a good place to
start is with the 1962 book, also titled Propaganda, by the Frenchman
Jacques Ellul. That book is still in print and is available from the
sponsor of this program, National Vanguard Books. Professor Ellul
deals with the subject in much greater depth and with much greater
honesty than Bernays does, but he agrees with Bernays on the most
obvious and
fundamental conclusions: on the irrelevance of the idea of democracy,
for example. I quote from Professor Ellul's book:

"If I am in favor of democracy, I can only regret that propaganda
renders the true exercise of it almost impossible. But I think that it
would be even worse to entertain any illusions about a coexistence of
true democracy and propaganda." -- end of quote --

To me it is frustrating that a conclusion that seems so obvious is
nevertheless resisted by so many otherwise intelligent people.
Democracy has become almost a sacred concept to them, this idea that
the policies guiding our nation should be decided by counting the
votes of every featherless biped who has reached the age of 18. It's
like motherhood:
they're almost afraid to question it.

This seems to be as true of intellectuals in our society as it is of
Joe Sixpacks. The fact is that intellectuals are no more likely to be
independent-minded than people who work with their hands; most
intellectuals, just like most Joe Sixpacks, are lemmings. In fact, as
Ellul points out, it is precisely the intellectuals who are most
strongly controlled by propaganda, because they are more open to every
medium of propaganda.

And I must admit that it took me a long time to overcome the ideas
drummed into me when I was in school that under a democracy people are
more free than under any other political system, that under a
democracy we are all free to think and say whatever we want, and that
we have a greater responsibility as citizens of a democracy to make up
our own minds about things independently, and so on. Actually, we
still have some degree of individual freedom in the United States
today because more than 200 years ago men whose temperament was far
more aristocratic than democratic in the modern sense of the word were
willing to go to war against their legitimate government in order to
secure that freedom for us, and people with a truly democratic
temperament, who have been
gnawing away at that freedom ever since, haven't yet succeeded in
suppressing it completely.

Well, it should not be surprising to us that although books such as
Professor Ellul's Propaganda - and many others - are readily
available, almost no one has heard of them. Keeping the public
believing in the myth of democracy is an important element in
maintaining control over the thinking and behavior of the public. It
is simply immoral and
scandalous to question the reality of democracy. It's like questioning
the truth of the "Holocaust" story. And for that reason we're not
likely to be taught in our social studies classes in school or to read
in the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal even the most obvious
and self-evident conclusions presented by Bernays or Ellul. We're
still
taught how democracy safeguards our freedom, even while those who
control the mechanism of propaganda in our democratic society are
working day and night to eliminate that freedom."

http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com

http://www.thebirdman.org http://www.nsm88.org

http://wsi.matriots.com/jews.html

ßDoüg±Ç · Guest

"B J Foster" <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:48c99c3a$0$31802$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

David Moss · Guest

B J Foster <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:48c99c3a$0$31802$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:

[link spam deleted]
Oops, nothing left.

Asking if Islamic Democracy exists is a rhetorical contradiction in terms.
Islam, like Judaism and Christianity is about doing what a God ordered.
Doing what an unelected Head of State (God) orders and democracy are
mutually exclusive. This is true regardless of the religion concerned, so
the reference to Islam in the title line is unnecessary.

The use of link spam and the deliberately provocative title line are so at
odds with BJ Foster's usual style I suspect a forgery.

--
David Moss
Personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://politics.sunnybar.dynip.com

ßDoüg±Ç · Guest

"David Moss" <q0320811@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:Xns9B176C51831FEq0320811mailconnectu@61.9.191.5...

dolf · Guest

Ever wondered why it is, Christians are so happy to talk about the
institutional economy as binary logic of male and female copulation
idealised in marriage as 'the union of male and female to the exclusion
of all others voluntarily entered into for life'?

But that ternary logic requires something more than a discussion with
eunuchs and their understanding of a theoretical (TRINITARIAN:
dual-natured infinite potential manifested within the temporal as
instigated time) man and a coherent underlying philosophical reality or
substance, as opposed to attributes or that which lacks substance: "Who
is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For
by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in
earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones [vRed: #365 (#41 -
Playing with Reversal/ Sameness in Difference) / #400 (#76 - Strength's
Warning Signs/ Revealers of Virtue)], or dominions [vBlue: #488 (#2 -
Contrast of Terms/ Self-Culture) / #396 (#72 - Self-Love/ Holding
Oneself Dear)], or principalities [vYellow: #364 (#40 - Reversal/
Avoiding Activity) / #380 (#56 - Abstruse Virtuosity/ Virtue of the
Mysterious)], or powers [vGreen: #361 (#37 - Non-Deeming Action/
Administration of Government) / #414 (#9 - Inconstancy of Achievement/
Practising Placidity)] all things were created by him, and for him:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is
the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn
from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it
pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having
made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all
things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or
things in heaven.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked
works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through
death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his
sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not
moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which
was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am
made a minister." [Colossians 1:15-23 (KJV)]

We are talking about their claimed religious belief as Christian
identity being irrational, as a figment of their own self delusion. That
is because one cannot get a rational explanation from them for that
belief. I say again, by your own admission: 'things based on faith which
cannot be explained rationally', any dialog with you on religious
values, identity and obligations by the Roman Catholic Church towards
any recognition of the autonomic right to regulative free-will is
irrational and incommensurate.

And is claimed piety and fascist conduct by Australians who's self
indulgent nationalism is hardly virtuous and representative of the
cultural reality that Australia is a Dutch possession colonised by the
British according to a Genesis Principle and Letters Patent of 1900 to
the Commonwealth of 1901.

"Thanks - you are right about everything!" Some Roman Catholics would
say. There's no need for any further discussion because you know
everything - you are trying to become God.

Rabbi Jaakov Feldman discusses the individual's relationship to God in
these terms, "And while G-d does indeed stand behind, within, and around
everything, which seems to give the impression that He is all that is,
that’s not so. For if all there was, was G-d, then human free choice and
individual responsibility would be a sham, G-d forbid. Understand
instead that while G-d is indeed present everywhere, He also “steps to
the side”, if you will -- hides Himself, and works in the background --
so as to allow for our presence here, too. But again, all of this is far
afield from the point at hand … albeit thorny and fascinating.

What draws me to Ramchal (Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzatto 1707-1746 CE) is
not that in 1735 he left Italy for the freedom of Amsterdam--The
attraction (as occurs with many old cities) is the ability to stand in
its place and participate within the fabric of experience which
collectively occur in those time/spaces. That I, a man in the 21st
century Australia (New Holland) can through Rabbi Jaakov Feldman,
understand the mind of the man, who as I have stood in Amsterdam streets.

He says of that time, the same is true of “all rules (of nature) and all
characteristics”. That’s to say that all measured and perceived
phenomena, as well as all the ways they act and interact, have been
instituted by G-d, and only continue by His constant assent. And just as
“He ordained these rules, He is likewise able to suspend or change them
at will, at any time” -- that is, nothing is set in stone unless G-d
“engraves” it, and everything is open for reconsideration at any time."
[Rabbi Jaakov Feldman, Fundamentals of the Jewish Faith Chapter Nine:
Miracles (Part 1), Project Genesis]

- dolf

David Moss wrote:

dolf · Guest

Ever wondered why it is, Christians are so happy to talk about the
institutional economy as binary logic of male and female copulation
idealised in marriage as 'the union of male and female to the exclusion
of all others voluntarily entered into for life'?

But that ternary logic requires something more than a discussion with
eunuchs and their understanding of a theoretical (TRINITARIAN:
dual-natured infinite potential manifested within the temporal as
instigated time) man and a coherent underlying philosophical reality or
substance, as opposed to attributes or that which lacks substance: "Who
is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For
by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in
earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones [vRed: #365 (#41 -
Playing with Reversal/ Sameness in Difference) / #400 (#76 - Strength's
Warning Signs/ Revealers of Virtue)], or dominions [vBlue: #488 (#2 -
Contrast of Terms/ Self-Culture) / #396 (#72 - Self-Love/ Holding
Oneself Dear)], or principalities [vYellow: #364 (#40 - Reversal/
Avoiding Activity) / #380 (#56 - Abstruse Virtuosity/ Virtue of the
Mysterious)], or powers [vGreen: #361 (#37 - Non-Deeming Action/
Administration of Government) / #414 (#9 - Inconstancy of Achievement/
Practising Placidity)] all things were created by him, and for him:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is
the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn
from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it
pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having
made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all
things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or
things in heaven.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked
works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through
death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his
sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not
moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which
was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am
made a minister." [Colossians 1:15-23 (KJV)]

We are talking about their claimed religious belief as Christian
identity being irrational, as a figment of their own self delusion. That
is because one cannot get a rational explanation from them for that
belief. I say again, by your own admission: 'things based on faith which
cannot be explained rationally', any dialog with you on religious
values, identity and obligations by the Roman Catholic Church towards
any recognition of the autonomic right to regulative free-will is
irrational and incommensurate.

And is claimed piety and fascist conduct by Australians who's self
indulgent nationalism is hardly virtuous and representative of the
cultural reality that Australia is a Dutch possession colonised by the
British according to a Genesis Principle and Letters Patent of 1900 to
the Commonwealth of 1901.

"Thanks - you are right about everything!" Some Roman Catholics would
say. There's no need for any further discussion because you know
everything - you are trying to become God.

Rabbi Jaakov Feldman discusses the individual's relationship to God in
these terms, "And while G-d does indeed stand behind, within, and around
everything, which seems to give the impression that He is all that is,
that’s not so. For if all there was, was G-d, then human free choice and
individual responsibility would be a sham, G-d forbid. Understand
instead that while G-d is indeed present everywhere, He also “steps to
the side”, if you will -- hides Himself, and works in the background --
so as to allow for our presence here, too. But again, all of this is far
afield from the point at hand … albeit thorny and fascinating.

What draws me to Ramchal (Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzatto 1707-1746 CE) is
not that in 1735 he left Italy for the freedom of Amsterdam--The
attraction (as occurs with many old cities) is the ability to stand in
its place and participate within the fabric of experience which
collectively occur in those time/spaces. That I, a man in the 21st
century Australia (New Holland) can through Rabbi Jaakov Feldman,
understand the mind of the man, who as I have stood in Amsterdam streets.

He says of that time, the same is true of “all rules (of nature) and all
characteristics”. That’s to say that all measured and perceived
phenomena, as well as all the ways they act and interact, have been
instituted by G-d, and only continue by His constant assent. And just as
“He ordained these rules, He is likewise able to suspend or change them
at will, at any time” -- that is, nothing is set in stone unless G-d
“engraves” it, and everything is open for reconsideration at any time."
[Rabbi Jaakov Feldman, Fundamentals of the Jewish Faith Chapter Nine:
Miracles (Part 1), Project Genesis]

- dolf

David Moss wrote:

David Moss · Guest

dolf <dolfboek@hotmail.com> wrote in news:48C9FA4E.10509@hotmail.com:

Svenne · Guest

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:57:54 -0500, Topaz <mars1933@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Svenne · Guest

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:38:53 GMT, David Moss
<q0320811@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote:

ßDoüg±Ç · Guest

"Svenne" <tvaerskaegg@aol.com> wrote in message
news:jvinc4150fr6ska5av87r8rscnkavj6hmg@4ax.com...

Svenne · Guest

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:45:19 -0700, "ßDoüg±Ç" <noünen@now.com> wrote:

ßDoüg±Ç · Guest

"Svenne" <tvaerskaegg@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0c4oc457vcevtq0lnf5pfrvvh504qnirob@4ax.com...

David Moss · Guest

Svenne <tvaerskaegg@aol.com> wrote in
news:jvinc4150fr6ska5av87r8rscnkavj6hmg@4ax.com:

David Moss · Guest

"ßDoüg±Ç" <noünen@now.com> wrote in news:jVTyk.198$W06.141
@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com:


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