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Jeff Strickland
Guest
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 Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Barack Obama supports "live birth abortion" |
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"Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote in message
news:wkLpk.21746$N87.11512@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
| Quote: |
We could get around the problems with interrogating suspected terrorists
by simply shooting them on sight. Sheesh!
Terrorists grab our guys and chop their heads off and drag the corpses
through the street, and you bitch because terrorists get a little bit
wet. Me thinks your priorities are a bit lopsided.
It's weird how you use the phrases "suspected terrorist" and "terrorist"
interchangeably.
Especially since most of the folks picked up on suspicion have been proved
to be innocent.
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Which is why we hold them at places such as Gitmo until we figure out just
exactly what they are, instead of simply shooting them on sight. |
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Sanders Kaufman
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:36 am Post subject: Re: Barack Obama supports "live birth abortion" |
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"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:g89ahl$j51$1@registered.motzarella.org...
| Quote: | "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote in message
Especially since most of the folks picked up on suspicion have been
proved to be innocent.
Which is why we hold them at places such as Gitmo until we figure out just
exactly what they are, instead of simply shooting them on sight.
|
"Hold Them" - what a cuddly little phrase that is.
It's right up there in cuddliness with "ethnic cleansing" and "strange
fruit". |
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Jeff Strickland
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:08 am Post subject: Re: Barack Obama supports "live birth abortion" |
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"Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote in message
news:b5%pk.34744$co7.3061@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com...
| Quote: | "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:g89ahl$j51$1@registered.motzarella.org...
"Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote in message
Especially since most of the folks picked up on suspicion have been
proved to be innocent.
Which is why we hold them at places such as Gitmo until we figure out
just exactly what they are, instead of simply shooting them on sight.
"Hold Them" - what a cuddly little phrase that is.
It's right up there in cuddliness with "ethnic cleansing" and "strange
fruit".
|
There is no similarity in what happens at Gitmo, and ethnic cleansing or
strange fruit -- whatever that is.
If the Club Gitmo members wore a uniform of a nation they battled on behalf
of, holding them at Gitmo would be perfectly fine under the terms of the
Geneva Conventions. The trouble is, these guys wear no uniform, and refuse
the Geneva Conventions rules of engagement. They have no other
classification than enemy. They are not soldiers, indeed the Geneva
Conventions specifically _exclude_ these guys for precisely the reasons
these guys refuse the Geneva Conventions.
You, and the rest of the bleeding heart liberals want to turn these guys
loose so they can attack again.
The irony is, if there is any ethnic cleansing going on, its the terrorist
(suspected and otherwise) that are undertaking the vast majority of it. |
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Sanders Kaufman
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:17 am Post subject: Re: Barack Obama supports "live birth abortion" |
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"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:g8a0fi$djb$1@registered.motzarella.org...
| Quote: | "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote in message
"Hold Them" - what a cuddly little phrase that is.
It's right up there in cuddliness with "ethnic cleansing" and "strange
fruit".
There is no similarity in what happens at Gitmo, and ethnic cleansing or
strange fruit -- whatever that is.
|
"Strange Fruit" refers to the way Evangelical terrorists in the south would
lynch black people and then leave them hanging from trees.
| Quote: | If the Club Gitmo members wore a uniform of a nation they battled on
behalf of, holding them at Gitmo would be perfectly fine under the terms
of the Geneva Conventions.
|
Again that cuddly little phrase "holding them" is just not realistic.
| Quote: | You, and the rest of the bleeding heart liberals want to turn these guys
loose so they can attack again.
|
As a true conservative, it's always weird to for me to see you spend-crazy
government-expansionists refer to yourselves as "conservative". |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:58 am Post subject: Re: Barack Obama supports "live birth abortion" |
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On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:26:53 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
<crwlr@verizon.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
I see no disconnect at all in my "stated" principles. I do see a disconnect
in what you think my principles might be and what they actually are.
I think we need the death penalty -- post birth abortion -- but not live
birth abortion.
|
Well, you need to research WHY they call the pre-partum
abortion "partial"
The law was changed to include any termination of a
(blob) or fetus AFTER the delivery......
Therefore to remain legal, the blob/fetus was
dispatched (if alive) prior to delivery out of the
birth canal.
As for the death penalty, a government has no business
in killing. THe death penalty has prevented NONE of
the murders it covers, and has been found to be flawed
in a considerable number of cases where innocent people
have been killed. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:04 am Post subject: Re: Barack Obama supports "live birth abortion" |
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On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:26:53 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
<crwlr@verizon.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Indeed, I think all abortion is wrong, but since I don't have a uterus, I'm
not well positioned to press the matter.
|
However, you continue to support a political ideology
that has no problem with telling a woman to carry a
pregnancy to full term--no matter what the initial act
was to begin it. Rape by relative, deranged person, is
a sentence that you gotta be pretty hard-hearted to
force on a woman. Yet not a blink from the same kind
of people that preach that shit---yet get caught
diddling little boys, hiring prostitutes, ripping old
lady's out of millions, living like millionaires (which
they are from selling god)
| Quote: | I'd be satisfied if all we did as a
society was _teach_ that abortion was wrong, then deal with women that
choose to abort.
|
"deal with them"??
What business of your is that? Or government? A fetus
is NOT a person. It's "rights" are connected to the
person/woman. It cannot have legal rights independent
of the woman.
| Quote: | think it is perfectly reasonable that a woman wishing to
abort should exercise that choice during the first trimester, and surely
within the first semister, but never should the woman exercise the right to
abort at the time of birth.
|
I haven't heard of many 3rd trimester abortions, rare
if at all---and certainly not as a birth control
| Quote: | Given that stance, I see no problem at all with the relative civil treatment
we show the detainees that we capture.
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We give detainees what WE don't want OUR people to
experience. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:07 am Post subject: Re: Barack Obama supports "live birth abortion" |
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On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 06:53:54 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
<crwlr@verizon.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote in message
news:wkLpk.21746$N87.11512@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
We could get around the problems with interrogating suspected terrorists
by simply shooting them on sight. Sheesh!
Terrorists grab our guys and chop their heads off and drag the corpses
through the street, and you bitch because terrorists get a little bit
wet. Me thinks your priorities are a bit lopsided.
It's weird how you use the phrases "suspected terrorist" and "terrorist"
interchangeably.
Especially since most of the folks picked up on suspicion have been proved
to be innocent.
Which is why we hold them at places such as Gitmo until we figure out just
exactly what they are, instead of simply shooting them on sight.
|
Which is why people like you who can alter primary
principles and ethics, were those who supported a
totalitarian like Hitler.
The Nazi party adopted Southern Social policy (forced
sterlilizations), taught it in medical universities,
for nearly a generation, then amplified it to
acceptance of euthenasia as a solution to dementia, old
age mental problems, then to "unwanted"---then to
extermination
All because their Moral and principal codes were
malleable. |
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Josh Rosenbluth
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:29 am Post subject: Re: Barack Obama supports "live birth abortion" |
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Jeff Strickland wrote:
| Quote: |
"Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote in message
news:b5%pk.34744$co7.3061@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:g89ahl$j51$1@registered.motzarella.org...
Which is why we hold them at places such as Gitmo until we figure out
just exactly what they are, instead of simply shooting them on sight.
|
Except we have been holding many people either without trying to figure
out what they are, or knowing what they are but refusing to either
release or try them. Moreover, since this is a war without end, we can
hold them in this purgatory-like status forever.
| Quote: | If the Club Gitmo members wore a uniform of a nation they battled on
behalf of, holding them at Gitmo would be perfectly fine under the terms
of the Geneva Conventions. The trouble is, these guys wear no uniform,
and refuse the Geneva Conventions rules of engagement. They have no
other classification than enemy. They are not soldiers, indeed the
Geneva Conventions specifically _exclude_ these guys for precisely the
reasons these guys refuse the Geneva Conventions.
|
SCOTUS has ruled that Common Article 3 of the Geneva Convention applies
to combatants not wearing a country's uniform.
Josh Rosenbluth |
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Jeff Strickland
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:31 am Post subject: Re: Barack Obama supports "live birth abortion" |
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<Nicklas@Click.com> wrote in message
news:m04ha4pj204jl8o1kcag7akp5q0o9t8lj7@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:26:53 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
crwlr@verizon.net> wrote:
I see no disconnect at all in my "stated" principles. I do see a
disconnect
in what you think my principles might be and what they actually are.
I think we need the death penalty -- post birth abortion -- but not live
birth abortion.
Well, you need to research WHY they call the pre-partum
abortion "partial"
The law was changed to include any termination of a
(blob) or fetus AFTER the delivery......
Therefore to remain legal, the blob/fetus was
dispatched (if alive) prior to delivery out of the
birth canal.
|
I disagree with the changes in the law. I also refuse to refer to a viable
birth as a "blob."
| Quote: | As for the death penalty, a government has no business
in killing. THe death penalty has prevented NONE of
the murders it covers, and has been found to be flawed
in a considerable number of cases where innocent people
have been killed.
|
The government has every business in killing. The problem with the death
penalty is that it takes far too long to carry out in my state. We have 650
death row inmates here, and we can't execute them because the drug
administration protocol has been challenged. We have inmates on death row
that have been there for 30-ish years, most of them have lived on death row
longer than their victims roamed the planet with the rest of society.
I care about innocent people being convicted, and that's a reasonable
complaint. But, we need to close the loopholes that ensnare capital inmates,
not abandon capital punishment. |
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| Back to top |
Jeff Strickland
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:36 am Post subject: Re: Barack Obama supports "live birth abortion" |
|
|
<Nicklas@Click.com> wrote in message
news:b74ha45coc60ucs1mhqp10v0dt94p01p57@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:26:53 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
crwlr@verizon.net> wrote:
Indeed, I think all abortion is wrong, but since I don't have a uterus,
I'm
not well positioned to press the matter.
However, you continue to support a political ideology
that has no problem with telling a woman to carry a
pregnancy to full term--no matter what the initial act
was to begin it. Rape by relative, deranged person, is
a sentence that you gotta be pretty hard-hearted to
force on a woman. Yet not a blink from the same kind
of people that preach that shit---yet get caught
diddling little boys, hiring prostitutes, ripping old
lady's out of millions, living like millionaires (which
they are from selling god)
|
If we are going to give abortions to relative rape victims, we should also
prosecute relative rapists.
I don't know what the rate of abortion is, but when the sexual activity is
voluntary, the right to abort should reasonably be diminished. When a woman
goes to a bar and has casual sex as a result, and the need to abort arises,
then we have one issue. But when a teen-ager is acosted by a relative then
we have a completely different issue.
| Quote: | I'd be satisfied if all we did as a
society was _teach_ that abortion was wrong, then deal with women that
choose to abort.
"deal with them"??
|
Sorry, poor choice of words.
| Quote: | What business of your is that? Or government? A fetus
is NOT a person. It's "rights" are connected to the
person/woman. It cannot have legal rights independent
of the woman.
|
That's were we part ways.
| Quote: | think it is perfectly reasonable that a woman wishing to
abort should exercise that choice during the first trimester, and surely
within the first semister, but never should the woman exercise the right
to
abort at the time of birth.
I haven't heard of many 3rd trimester abortions, rare
if at all---and certainly not as a birth control
|
Come on Nick, the topic is live birth abortion. That, by definition is third
tirmester.
| Quote: | Given that stance, I see no problem at all with the relative civil
treatment
we show the detainees that we capture.
We give detainees what WE don't want OUR people to
experience.
|
So? |
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| Back to top |
Jeff Strickland
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:39 am Post subject: Re: Barack Obama supports "live birth abortion" |
|
|
"Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote in message
news:rH%pk.20138$uE5.12762@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
| Quote: | "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:g8a0fi$djb$1@registered.motzarella.org...
"Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote in message
"Hold Them" - what a cuddly little phrase that is.
It's right up there in cuddliness with "ethnic cleansing" and "strange
fruit".
There is no similarity in what happens at Gitmo, and ethnic cleansing or
strange fruit -- whatever that is.
"Strange Fruit" refers to the way Evangelical terrorists in the south
would lynch black people and then leave them hanging from trees.
|
I get the picture, but have never heard the prase before.
Still, there is no similarity ...
| Quote: | If the Club Gitmo members wore a uniform of a nation they battled on
behalf of, holding them at Gitmo would be perfectly fine under the terms
of the Geneva Conventions.
Again that cuddly little phrase "holding them" is just not realistic.
|
Sure it is. Even if they get a little bit wet during the interrogation.
| Quote: | You, and the rest of the bleeding heart liberals want to turn these guys
loose so they can attack again.
As a true conservative, it's always weird to for me to see you spend-crazy
government-expansionists refer to yourselves as "conservative".
|
Expansionists? |
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| Back to top |
Jeff Strickland
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:40 am Post subject: Re: Barack Obama supports "live birth abortion" |
|
|
<Nicklas@Click.com> wrote in message
news:uj4ha4lnvjci0m1806p398df4dsn3g4tfj@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 06:53:54 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
crwlr@verizon.net> wrote:
"Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote in message
news:wkLpk.21746$N87.11512@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
We could get around the problems with interrogating suspected
terrorists
by simply shooting them on sight. Sheesh!
Terrorists grab our guys and chop their heads off and drag the corpses
through the street, and you bitch because terrorists get a little bit
wet. Me thinks your priorities are a bit lopsided.
It's weird how you use the phrases "suspected terrorist" and "terrorist"
interchangeably.
Especially since most of the folks picked up on suspicion have been
proved
to be innocent.
Which is why we hold them at places such as Gitmo until we figure out just
exactly what they are, instead of simply shooting them on sight.
Which is why people like you who can alter primary
principles and ethics, were those who supported a
totalitarian like Hitler.
The Nazi party adopted
|
Great, Nick. Now we're nazis. |
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| Back to top |
Jeff Strickland
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:43 am Post subject: Re: Barack Obama supports "live birth abortion" |
|
|
"Josh Rosenbluth" <jrosenbluth@gotcha.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:koOdnTabPt-pBTXVnZ2dnUVZ_qvinZ2d@comcast.com...
| Quote: | Jeff Strickland wrote:
"Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote in message
news:b5%pk.34744$co7.3061@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:g89ahl$j51$1@registered.motzarella.org...
Which is why we hold them at places such as Gitmo until we figure out
just exactly what they are, instead of simply shooting them on sight.
Except we have been holding many people either without trying to figure
out what they are, or knowing what they are but refusing to either release
or try them. Moreover, since this is a war without end, we can hold them
in this purgatory-like status forever.
|
And why should this bother me?
If I was captured there, I would face precisely the same fate. Indeed, where
is your outrage for Americans held in Mexico, or anyplace else for that
matter? |
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| Back to top |
Josh Rosenbluth
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:28 am Post subject: Re: Barack Obama supports "live birth abortion" |
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Jeff Strickland wrote:
| Quote: |
I don't know what the rate of abortion is, but when the sexual activity
is voluntary, the right to abort should reasonably be diminished. When a
woman goes to a bar and has casual sex as a result, and the need to
abort arises, then we have one issue. But when a teen-ager is acosted by
a relative then we have a completely different issue.
What business of your is that? Or government? A fetus
is NOT a person. It's "rights" are connected to the
person/woman. It cannot have legal rights independent
of the woman.
That's were we part ways.
|
If a fetus is a person with independent legal rights, why does it matter
whether the woman had sex voluntarily or was a teenager raped by a
relative? Why would a fetus-person in the latter circumstance have
lesser legal rights?
Josh Rosenbluth |
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| Back to top |
Josh Rosenbluth
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:29 am Post subject: Re: Barack Obama supports "live birth abortion" |
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Jeff Strickland wrote:
| Quote: |
"Josh Rosenbluth" <jrosenbluth@gotcha.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:koOdnTabPt-pBTXVnZ2dnUVZ_qvinZ2d@comcast.com...
Jeff Strickland wrote:
"Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote in message
news:b5%pk.34744$co7.3061@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:g89ahl$j51$1@registered.motzarella.org...
Which is why we hold them at places such as Gitmo until we figure
out just exactly what they are, instead of simply shooting them on
sight.
Except we have been holding many people either without trying to
figure out what they are, or knowing what they are but refusing to
either release or try them. Moreover, since this is a war without
end, we can hold them in this purgatory-like status forever.
And why should this bother me?
|
Because it's morally unacceptable.
| Quote: | If I was captured there, I would face precisely the same fate. Indeed,
where is your outrage for Americans held in Mexico, or anyplace else for
that matter?
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Please document Americans being held by other governments.
Josh Rosenbluth |
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