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Bob LeChevalier
Guest
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 Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
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"Bob" <no@email.add> wrote:
| Quote: | "Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:tqvbh4ludls12n39d7apickmruqv988qhg@4ax.com...
The_Carpathia <writingken@yahoo.com> wrote:
I am a sinner worthy of hell...as are you. The difference is that I
have Christ's blood to pay for my sins. Do you?
Christ will refuse to pay for yours, because you are an unrepentant
sinner. You mouth the words, but faith isn't really there.
If you are a Christian, you owe him/her an apology.
|
Does the word "apologize" appear in the Bible? Is there a commandment
that requires it? Or are you making things up like Kennie does.
Kennie's behavior on the newsgroups is in the service of Satan, and it
is perfectly legitimate for me to call him on that behavior. Did
Christ apologize to Satan for rebuking him? Did Christ apologize to
the Pharisees for rebuking them?
He has never apologized to anyone for his repeated insults, EVEN after
the insults are proven wrong. He has indeed accused me of worse than
I accused him of.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
lojbab@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org |
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Bill Gamelson
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
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"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ctsRk.1113$M_1.805@newsfe01.iad...
| Quote: |
The word "rapture" does not appear in the Bible either, however the word
"sorrow" appears in the Bible 70 times.
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Oh yea, and the word "repent" appears 46 times. |
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Bill Gamelson
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
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"The_Carpathia" <writingken@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f904d775-324e-42f6-a2b5-8f707e822d50@e38g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 8, 9:19 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
| Quote: | "Bob" <n...@email.add> wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:tqvbh4ludls12n39d7apickmruqv988qhg@4ax.com...
The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I am a sinner worthy of hell...as are you. The difference is that I
have Christ's blood to pay for my sins. Do you?
Christ will refuse to pay for yours, because you are an unrepentant
sinner. You mouth the words, but faith isn't really there.
If you are a Christian, you owe him/her an apology.
Does the word "apologize" appear in the Bible? Is there a commandment
that requires it? Or are you making things up like Kennie does.
|
The word "rapture" does not appear in the Bible either, however the word
"sorrow" appears in the Bible 70 times. |
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Bob LeChevalier
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
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The_Carpathia <writingken@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Nov 8, 9:19 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
"Bob" <n...@email.add> wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:tqvbh4ludls12n39d7apickmruqv988qhg@4ax.com...
The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I am a sinner worthy of hell...as are you. The difference is that I
have Christ's blood to pay for my sins. Do you?
Christ will refuse to pay for yours, because you are an unrepentant
sinner. You mouth the words, but faith isn't really there.
If you are a Christian, you owe him/her an apology.
Does the word "apologize" appear in the Bible? Is there a commandment
that requires it? Or are you making things up like Kennie does.
Kennie's behavior on the newsgroups is in the service of Satan, and it
is perfectly legitimate for me to call him on that behavior. Did
Christ apologize to Satan for rebuking him? Did Christ apologize to
the Pharisees for rebuking them?
He has never apologized to anyone for his repeated insults, EVEN after
the insults are proven wrong. He has indeed accused me of worse than
I accused him of.
I AM a sinner.
|
We know. Why do you think we give a damn? After all, there are 6
billion other sinners, and they don't all feel a need to say so on
these news groups. What makes YOU so "special"?
| Quote: | Did you not just hear me say it?
|
You blather all sorts of things.
| Quote: | You are too. I
accept the blood of Christ for my sins, and you delete the Scriptures
from my post to justify yourself.
|
No. I deleted most of your post because it was irrelevant and I wasn't
replying to that part of your post. Anyone who REALLY cares can look
upthread to find if you said something else. But of course no one
does care what you say, which is what irks you so much.
| Quote: | Others can judge who is following Christ's plan of redemption
|
It is up to Christ to judge, not "others". Christ doesn't need your
Usenet posting in order to judge.
| Quote: | and who is trying to stand on their own merits.
|
Since you have no merits, that certainly doesn't describe you.
| Quote: | However, you no longer have the excuse before God that someone didn't
give you the gospel and seek your forgiveness.
|
That was true some 40 years ago, dodo. And one doesn't in fact need
anyone to "give me the gospel". One can pick up the book and read for
themselves and let God do His job.
And no one needs to "seek my forgiveness". Christ does that already
without the help of pseudo-Christians servants of Satan like yourself.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
lojbab@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org |
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Bob LeChevalier
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
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The_Carpathia <writingken@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Nov 8, 1:02 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
READ the verses I have given.
They aren't relevant.
So, the you don't feel the WORDS OF CHRIST are relevant to understand
what Christ requires?
|
The topic wasn't "what Christ requires".
| Quote: | As I have said before, I want to be present when you tell God that He
should judge you by YOUR standard instead of His.
|
Why would I tell God that? And you won't be there, since Christ has
said that he will tell all liars "I never knew ye".
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
lojbab@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org |
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Cary Kittrell
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
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In article <d9ae4e9a-663e-413b-9d47-1b3582fd41bb@c22g2000prc.googlegroups.com> The_Carpathia <writingken@yahoo.com> writes:
| Quote: | On Nov 7, 10:23=A0pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <042d4c77-3011-4820-8012-70abadf33...@r15g2000prh.googlegroups=
.com> The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> writes:
On Nov 7, 1:25=3DA0pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <8e4d5152-f8d9-4605-9dc0-cd40d5f40...@d42g2000prb.googlegr=
oups=3D
.com> Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> writes:
On Nov 7, 12:14=3D3DA0pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell)=
wrote=3D
:
In article <eb54dc04-4e49-4f9e-a892-28786f107...@k1g2000prb.googl=
egro=3D
ups.=3D3D
com> The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> writes:
On Nov 6, 8:55=3D3D3DA0pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kitt=
rell) =3D
wrote:
In article <77a5180f-3bca-44a2-bb0e-1a13c0e14...@c22g2000prc.=
goog=3D
legr=3D3D
oups=3D3D3D
.com> Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> writes:
Wow.
Here's Jesus: Love your neighbor. Love your enemy. If someo=
ne s=3D
teal=3D3D
s
your coat, give him your shirt too. Judge not, lest you be =
judg=3D
ed.
Are you judging me, Anlatt?
Oh, Ken will just give you some faith-not-works verses.
And the when you ask why, if that's the case, Jesus bothered =
with=3D
=A0all
the feed-the-poor, clothe-the-naked stuff in the first place,
Ken will explain:
On the contrary, the God that commands the TITHE (that cannot h=
appe=3D
n
in a communist government that spreads the wealth)
Silly Ken. =3D3DA0I keep asking you how those Catholic Churches
in Havana stay in business (hint: not via government
subsidies) and you keep fleeing my question.
(second hint: no form of socialism or communism requires
you to *keep* what you receive)
does indeed give
suggestions about how to live,
"Suggestion"? =3D3DA0SUGGESTION?
I'd say this is a pretty strong "suggestion", wouldn't you?:
=3D3DA0 =3D3DA0 =3D3DA0Then shall he say also unto them on the le=
ft hand, D=3D
epart from=3D3D
=3DA0me, ye
=3D3DA0 =3D3DA0 cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the d=
evil and=3D
=A0his ang=3D3D
els:
Jesus "suggests" that you give your all for the disenfranchised -=
-
and if you do not, He will "suggest" that you go straight to
Hell.
His words, not mine.
but He only gives ONE WORK for
salvation...by accepting HIS OWN BLOOD for your sins. =3D3DA0Wi=
thout =3D
that
work, no other work will save you. =3D3DA0Have you done that wo=
rk?
And He in addition says that if you do NOT also do these other wo=
rks,=3D
=A0you
will go to hell for your failures.
Doesn't He?
-- cary
Duh! =3DA0If you don't accept Christ's blood for your sins, you are=
gonig
to hell, anyway. =3DA0However, nowhere does Christ say that works o=
f
righteousness will earn you salvation (which Paul says repeatedly
cannot happen). =3DA0ONLY the blood of Christ saves you from hell (=
not
works of righteousness). =3DA0Have you accepted the blood for your =
sins?
You have yet to answer my oft-repeated question: if faith alone suffi=
ces,
WHY does Jesus demand that you feed the hungry, clothe the naked,
and visit the imprisoned? =3DA0Why does he say -- absolutely unambigu=
ously =3D
--
that you will burn in hell if you do not?
Well?:
I JUST answered your question. =A0Re-read my words. =A0YOU are going to
hell if you don't accept Jesus....
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not
believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the
name of God's one and only son." John 3:18 NIV
There isn't any mention of feeding the hungry or taking care of the
poor there.
Nope, there isn't. =A0But there most certainly *is* in the section
of Matthew I quoted, and it won't go away no matter how much you
ignore it.
Actually, that passage is completely in line with my post. The
Matthew 25 passage ... indeed, even the part you quote from ... says
that sins against the least of mankind are taken by God as sins
against God, Himself. Therefore, EVERYONE that has sinned against
anyone has sentenced themselves to hell....EVERYONE. That's why we
need Jesus. Without Jesus to pay for our sins, we ALL are destined
for hell.
|
And of course Jesus nowhere in this passage says "...but if
you accept Me, then you don't have to do any of the things
I command you to here".
Rather, Jesus says most clearly and unambiguously that you MUST
do these things, else you're hell-bound. Nowhere does
He give any kind of escape clause for those who accept Him.
Does He?
I am not arguing that in Christian theology, faith and
acceptance are not necessary. I am arguing that Jesus
Himself said that these were not sufficient, in Matthew 25.
Didn't He?
-- cary
14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and
have not works? can faith save him?
15: If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16: And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled;
notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the
body; what doth it profit?
17: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy
faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19: Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also
believe, and tremble.
20: But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered
Isaac his son upon the altar?
22: Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith
made perfect?
23: And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and
it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend
of God.
24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith
only.
| Quote: |
Indeed, back up two verses to the most referenced verse of the
Bible...John 3:16..."For God so loved the world that he gave his ONE
AND ONLY son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have
eternal life."
Where's the social requirements?
In Matthew, where Jesus Himself says it. =A0Remember Him?
That passage doesn't say that works earn you salvation, and this one
clearly says the requirement is accepting Christ. Are you going to
reject Christ's own given requirement, here in John?
Let's go further in that chapter to John 3:36 NIV, "Whoever believes
in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see
life, for God's wrath REMAINS on him." =A0(remains implies it was
already there)
Nope....no works path to salvation.
So WHY DID JESUS SAY IT? =A0I've asked time and again: why
did Jesus say it? =A0You seem to think John's words trump
those of Jesus.
Almost every quote I give you here is FROM Jesus, saying that
accepting Christ is the path to salvation, while you have yet to show
me where Christ, Himself, contradicted himself by saying it can be
accomplished by works without Him.
So, what work did Christ HIMSELF specify is the sole requirement for
salvation? =A0"The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has
sent." John 6:29 NIV
Again..."I tell you the truth, he who believes has eternal life....I
am the living bread that comes down from heaven. =A0If anyone eats of
this bread, he will live forever. =A0This bread is my flesh, which I
will give for the life of the world" =A0John 6:47, 51 NIV
Then why did Jesus also say that you will be going to hell if you
fail to succor the poor? =A0
You are intentionally ignoring my answer...aren't you? Without Christ
we are ALL goind go hell...works or no works. That's why the verse
above says without Christ God's wrath REMAINS upon us. That's why
John 3:18 said we are ALREADY condemned. Without Christ, you WILL
INDEED go to hell for failure to do works. However, those works are
never given as the path to salvation. The blood of Christ for your
sins does. Do you have that payment for your sins?
Kenneth Clifton
--
www.2008jesus.com |
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Gray Shockley
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
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On Fri, 7 Nov 2008, Wild Eyed in Blunder wrote:
| Quote: | Duh! If you don't accept Christ's blood for your sins, you are gonig
to hell, anyway. However, nowhere does Christ say that works of
righteousness will earn you salvation (which Paul says repeatedly
cannot happen). ONLY the blood of Christ saves you from hell (not
works of righteousness). Have you accepted the blood for your sins?
Kenneth Clifton
|
Kenneth "His Words Are Turds" Clifton and George Whiskey Cocaine Bush are
both born-again Christians.
Any questions?
Gray Shockley
---------------------
.... a government committed to a policy of
improving the nation by improving the
condition of some of the individuals will
eventually run into trouble in attempting
to distinguish between a national good
and a chocolate sundae. - E. B. White |
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Gray Shockley
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: Kenneth "His Words Are Turds" Clifton: Cheney's True Son |
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On Fri, 7 Nov 2008, Kissing McCain's Ass wrote:
| Quote: | On Nov 6, 10:08 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Oh, Ken will just give you some faith-not-works verses.
And the when you ask why, if that's the case, Jesus bothered with all
the feed-the-poor, clothe-the-naked stuff in the first place,
Ken will explain:
On the contrary, the God that commands the TITHE (that cannot happen
in a communist government that spreads the wealth)
But can happen in a United States government that spreads the wealth.
Answering for Cary, again, I see. Have YOU accepted the blood of
Christ for salvation, Christ's only given method for salvation?
Kenneth Clifton
|
If accepting "the blood of Christ for salvation" turns out low-life pieces of
trash such as Kenneth "Jesus was a republican" Clifton, why should anyone
bother?
Oh, it appears that Kenneth Clifton and Al Qaeda share views on
President-Elect Obama. Why am I not surprised?
------------------------------------
Cheney Indictment Moves Forward In South Texas
Ethics Complaint Filed Against Palin Over Fox News Interview
------------------------------------
Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker (WaPo):
As Republicans sort out the reasons for their defeat, they likely will
overlook or dismiss the gorilla in the pulpit.
Three little letters, great big problem: G-O-D.
I'm bathing in holy water as I type.
To be more specific, the evangelical, right-wing, oogedy-boogedy branch of
the GOP is what ails the erstwhile conservative party and will continue to
afflict and marginalize its constituents if reckoning doesn't soon cometh.
Simply put: Armband religion is killing the Republican Party. And, the truth
-- as long as we're setting ourselves free -- is that if one were to
eavesdrop on private conversations among the party intelligentsia, one would
hear precisely that.
------------------------------------
Dick Cheney's Hometown Paper Endorses Obama
------------------------------------
A South Texas grand jury has indicted Vice President Dick Cheney and former
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales on state charges related to the alleged
abuse of prisoners in Willacy County's federal detention centers.
The indictment, which had not yet been signed by the presiding judge, was one
of seven released Tuesday in a county that has been a source of bizarre legal
and political battles in recent years. Another of the indictments named a
state senator on charges of profiting from his position.
Willacy County District Attorney Juan Angel Guerra himself had been under
indictment for more than a year and half before a judge dismissed the
indictments last month. This flurry of charges came in the twilight of
Guerra's tenure, which ends this year after nearly two decades in office. He
lost convincingly in a Democratic primary in March.
Cheney's indictment on a charge of engaging in an organized criminal activity
criticizes the vice president's investment in the Vanguard Group, which holds
interests in the private prison companies running the federal detention
centers. It accuses Cheney of a conflict of interest and "at least
misdemeanor assaults" on detainees because of his link to the prison
companies.
Megan Mitchell, a spokeswoman for Cheney, declined to comment on Tuesday,
saying that the vice president had not yet received a copy of the indictment.
The indictment accuses Gonzales of using his position while in office to stop
an investigation in 2006 into abuses at one of the privately-run prisons.
-------------------------------------------------
| Quote: | --
www.2008jesus.com
|
<http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6119459.html> |
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Cary Kittrell
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Kenneth "His Words Are Turds" Clifton: Cheney's True Son |
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In article <0001HW.C54A60CE0009D705B053B9AF@news.giganews.com> gray@andthehorseyourodeinon.net writes:
| Quote: | 8c7h45eaktjjau4im4kn12d49f34iglus@4ax.com> <2353432a-6633-4eeb-a17a-2b5e81913d71@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com
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On Fri, 7 Nov 2008, Kissing McCain's Ass wrote:
On Nov 6, 10:08 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Oh, Ken will just give you some faith-not-works verses.
And the when you ask why, if that's the case, Jesus bothered with all
the feed-the-poor, clothe-the-naked stuff in the first place,
Ken will explain:
On the contrary, the God that commands the TITHE (that cannot happen
in a communist government that spreads the wealth)
But can happen in a United States government that spreads the wealth.
Answering for Cary, again, I see. Have YOU accepted the blood of
Christ for salvation, Christ's only given method for salvation?
Kenneth Clifton
If accepting "the blood of Christ for salvation" turns out low-life pieces of
trash such as Kenneth "Jesus was a republican" Clifton, why should anyone
bother?
Oh, it appears that Kenneth Clifton and Al Qaeda share views on
President-Elect Obama. Why am I not surprised?
------------------------------------
Cheney Indictment Moves Forward In South Texas
Ethics Complaint Filed Against Palin Over Fox News Interview
------------------------------------
Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker (WaPo):
As Republicans sort out the reasons for their defeat, they likely will
overlook or dismiss the gorilla in the pulpit.
Three little letters, great big problem: G-O-D.
I'm bathing in holy water as I type.
To be more specific, the evangelical, right-wing, oogedy-boogedy branch of
the GOP is what ails the erstwhile conservative party and will continue to
afflict and marginalize its constituents if reckoning doesn't soon cometh.
Simply put: Armband religion is killing the Republican Party. And, the truth
-- as long as we're setting ourselves free -- is that if one were to
eavesdrop on private conversations among the party intelligentsia, one would
hear precisely that.
|
I have elsewhere indicated my willingness to contribute
to Palin's 2012 campaign if she decides to run. It's the
briar patch strategy.
-- cary
| Quote: | ------------------------------------
Dick Cheney's Hometown Paper Endorses Obama
------------------------------------
A South Texas grand jury has indicted Vice President Dick Cheney and former
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales on state charges related to the alleged
abuse of prisoners in Willacy County's federal detention centers.
The indictment, which had not yet been signed by the presiding judge, was one
of seven released Tuesday in a county that has been a source of bizarre legal
and political battles in recent years. Another of the indictments named a
state senator on charges of profiting from his position.
Willacy County District Attorney Juan Angel Guerra himself had been under
indictment for more than a year and half before a judge dismissed the
indictments last month. This flurry of charges came in the twilight of
Guerra's tenure, which ends this year after nearly two decades in office. He
lost convincingly in a Democratic primary in March.
Cheney's indictment on a charge of engaging in an organized criminal activity
criticizes the vice president's investment in the Vanguard Group, which holds
interests in the private prison companies running the federal detention
centers. It accuses Cheney of a conflict of interest and "at least
misdemeanor assaults" on detainees because of his link to the prison
companies.
Megan Mitchell, a spokeswoman for Cheney, declined to comment on Tuesday,
saying that the vice president had not yet received a copy of the indictment.
The indictment accuses Gonzales of using his position while in office to stop
an investigation in 2006 into abuses at one of the privately-run prisons.
-------------------------------------------------
--
www.2008jesus.com
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6119459.html
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