| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Cary Kittrell
Guest
|
 Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
 |
|
In article <e89ecf44-7005-4798-8a15-706ae355b818@v16g2000prc.googlegroups.com> Tartarus <tartarus@rome.com> writes:
| Quote: | On Nov 5, 9:06=A0am, The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Here's a few samples from the speech that birthed New Babylon....
You are too stupid to educate and too annoying to bear.
|
No, he's simply found his fantasy world to be more emotionally
satisfying than the actual world the rest of us live in,
and so he's taking up permanance residence there.
It must be nice.
-- cary
|
|
| |
|
 Back to top |
Wide Eyed in Wonder
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
|
|
On Nov 7, 12:14 pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
| Quote: | In article <eb54dc04-4e49-4f9e-a892-28786f107...@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com> The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> writes:
On Nov 6, 8:55=A0pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <77a5180f-3bca-44a2-bb0e-1a13c0e14...@c22g2000prc.googlegroups> > .com> Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> writes:
Wow.
Here's Jesus: Love your neighbor. Love your enemy. If someone steals
your coat, give him your shirt too. Judge not, lest you be judged.
Are you judging me, Anlatt?
Oh, Ken will just give you some faith-not-works verses.
And the when you ask why, if that's the case, Jesus bothered with all
the feed-the-poor, clothe-the-naked stuff in the first place,
Ken will explain:
On the contrary, the God that commands the TITHE (that cannot happen
in a communist government that spreads the wealth)
Silly Ken. I keep asking you how those Catholic Churches
in Havana stay in business (hint: not via government
subsidies) and you keep fleeing my question.
(second hint: no form of socialism or communism requires
you to *keep* what you receive)
does indeed give
suggestions about how to live,
"Suggestion"? SUGGESTION?
I'd say this is a pretty strong "suggestion", wouldn't you?:
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye
cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Jesus "suggests" that you give your all for the disenfranchised --
and if you do not, He will "suggest" that you go straight to
Hell.
His words, not mine.
but He only gives ONE WORK for
salvation...by accepting HIS OWN BLOOD for your sins. Without that
work, no other work will save you. Have you done that work?
And He in addition says that if you do NOT also do these other works, you
will go to hell for your failures.
Doesn't He?
-- cary
|
Duh! If you don't accept Christ's blood for your sins, you are gonig
to hell, anyway. However, nowhere does Christ say that works of
righteousness will earn you salvation (which Paul says repeatedly
cannot happen). ONLY the blood of Christ saves you from hell (not
works of righteousness). Have you accepted the blood for your sins?
Kenneth Clifton
--
www.2008jesus.com |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Cary Kittrell
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
|
|
In article <ef40357a-7135-46c9-aa99-6f0853a83531@n1g2000prb.googlegroups.com> The_Carpathia <writingken@yahoo.com> writes:
| Quote: | On Nov 5, 7:33=A0pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
That
phrase...E Pluribus Unum means "OUT OF MANY ONE"...which Obama just
said was the American Dream.
You have a problem with that?
Welcome to New Babylon.
You are welcome to leave at any time.
Trust me...I expect to be leaving by way of rapture any second.
|
You and two thousand years worth of other disapointees.
| Quote: | You'll have to deal with totalitarian government to come and command
to take the mark....
what am I saying...you'll probably be the one
chopping off the heads of those that refuse.
Kenneth Clifton
--
www.2008jesus.com |
|
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Cary Kittrell
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
|
|
In article <d538a6a1-6fab-4801-824c-d704d04c9d22@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com> Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> writes:
| Quote: | On Nov 6, 9:58=A0pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Nov 5, 7:33=A0pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
That
phrase...E Pluribus Unum means "OUT OF MANY ONE"...which Obama just
said was the American Dream.
You have a problem with that?
Welcome to New Babylon.
You are welcome to leave at any time.
Trust me...I expect to be leaving by way of rapture any second.
People have been saying that for many years, indeed many centuries
depending on whatever Biblical interpretation was being used. =A0Their
expectations have proven fruitless.
So will yours. =A0Jesus said we will not know in advance, so your
expectation is itself blasphemous.
Never before in history has so many prophecies come true in so little
time. Within the past few months, we have seen the world's economy
fail (prompting actual discussions of a worldwide currency), worldwide
hatred of Christ among all religions, a leader that came from no where
to be on track to be "President of the world" as recent news articles
suggest that is making promises to both Israel and Islam to bring
peace in Jerusalem ... a leader that made campaign stops in Europe for
a US Presidency, socialism entrenched on all seven continents (a beast
of 666 ... unified man), a religious unity being proposed where all
religions work together but no one can "offend" another by saying
theirs is the only way (thanks to the fairness doctrine coming), and
the world going along with the "leader's" lies without question (the
great delusion) ... even days before the election, major US reporters
in a roundtable said they STILL didn't know what Obama's position was
on almost anything...yet, they voted for him. Then, we have him (in
his acceptance speech) saying this was a victory for mankind, saying
he would attack those that are opposed to world unity, and quoting the
Freemason symbol on the dollar bill as our American Dream. By the
way, right on the dollar bill on the other side (the other half of the
Great Seal) from the words he quoted (as the American dream) is the
unfinished temple...representing the unfinished tower of BABEL and the
words Novus Ordo Seclorum (New World Order).
Babylon is reborn.
|
If I send you $100 via PayPal today, will you sign over all
your worldly goods to me, effective one year from today's date?
-- cary
| Quote: |
Kenneth Clifton
--
www.2008jesus.com |
|
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Cary Kittrell
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
|
|
In article <8e4d5152-f8d9-4605-9dc0-cd40d5f40f73@d42g2000prb.googlegroups.com> Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> writes:
| Quote: | On Nov 7, 12:14=A0pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <eb54dc04-4e49-4f9e-a892-28786f107...@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.=
com> The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> writes:
On Nov 6, 8:55=3DA0pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <77a5180f-3bca-44a2-bb0e-1a13c0e14...@c22g2000prc.googlegr=
oups=3D
.com> Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> writes:
Wow.
Here's Jesus: Love your neighbor. Love your enemy. If someone steal=
s
your coat, give him your shirt too. Judge not, lest you be judged.
Are you judging me, Anlatt?
Oh, Ken will just give you some faith-not-works verses.
And the when you ask why, if that's the case, Jesus bothered with all
the feed-the-poor, clothe-the-naked stuff in the first place,
Ken will explain:
On the contrary, the God that commands the TITHE (that cannot happen
in a communist government that spreads the wealth)
Silly Ken. =A0I keep asking you how those Catholic Churches
in Havana stay in business (hint: not via government
subsidies) and you keep fleeing my question.
(second hint: no form of socialism or communism requires
you to *keep* what you receive)
does indeed give
suggestions about how to live,
"Suggestion"? =A0SUGGESTION?
I'd say this is a pretty strong "suggestion", wouldn't you?:
=A0 =A0 =A0Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from=
me, ye
=A0 =A0 cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his ang=
els:
Jesus "suggests" that you give your all for the disenfranchised --
and if you do not, He will "suggest" that you go straight to
Hell.
His words, not mine.
but He only gives ONE WORK for
salvation...by accepting HIS OWN BLOOD for your sins. =A0Without that
work, no other work will save you. =A0Have you done that work?
And He in addition says that if you do NOT also do these other works, you
will go to hell for your failures.
Doesn't He?
-- cary
Duh! If you don't accept Christ's blood for your sins, you are gonig
to hell, anyway. However, nowhere does Christ say that works of
righteousness will earn you salvation (which Paul says repeatedly
cannot happen). ONLY the blood of Christ saves you from hell (not
works of righteousness). Have you accepted the blood for your sins?
|
You have yet to answer my oft-repeated question: if faith alone suffices,
WHY does Jesus demand that you feed the hungry, clothe the naked,
and visit the imprisoned? Why does he say -- absolutely unambiguously --
that you will burn in hell if you do not?
Well?:
-- cary |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
The_Carpathia
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:33 am Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
|
|
On Nov 7, 1:25 pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
| Quote: | In article <8e4d5152-f8d9-4605-9dc0-cd40d5f40...@d42g2000prb.googlegroups..com> Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> writes:
On Nov 7, 12:14=A0pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <eb54dc04-4e49-4f9e-a892-28786f107...@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.> > com> The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> writes:
On Nov 6, 8:55=3DA0pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <77a5180f-3bca-44a2-bb0e-1a13c0e14...@c22g2000prc.googlegr> > oups=3D
.com> Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> writes:
Wow.
Here's Jesus: Love your neighbor. Love your enemy. If someone steal> > s
your coat, give him your shirt too. Judge not, lest you be judged.
Are you judging me, Anlatt?
Oh, Ken will just give you some faith-not-works verses.
And the when you ask why, if that's the case, Jesus bothered with all
the feed-the-poor, clothe-the-naked stuff in the first place,
Ken will explain:
On the contrary, the God that commands the TITHE (that cannot happen
in a communist government that spreads the wealth)
Silly Ken. =A0I keep asking you how those Catholic Churches
in Havana stay in business (hint: not via government
subsidies) and you keep fleeing my question.
(second hint: no form of socialism or communism requires
you to *keep* what you receive)
does indeed give
suggestions about how to live,
"Suggestion"? =A0SUGGESTION?
I'd say this is a pretty strong "suggestion", wouldn't you?:
=A0 =A0 =A0Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from> > me, ye
=A0 =A0 cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his ang> > els:
Jesus "suggests" that you give your all for the disenfranchised --
and if you do not, He will "suggest" that you go straight to
Hell.
His words, not mine.
but He only gives ONE WORK for
salvation...by accepting HIS OWN BLOOD for your sins. =A0Without that
work, no other work will save you. =A0Have you done that work?
And He in addition says that if you do NOT also do these other works, you
will go to hell for your failures.
Doesn't He?
-- cary
Duh! If you don't accept Christ's blood for your sins, you are gonig
to hell, anyway. However, nowhere does Christ say that works of
righteousness will earn you salvation (which Paul says repeatedly
cannot happen). ONLY the blood of Christ saves you from hell (not
works of righteousness). Have you accepted the blood for your sins?
You have yet to answer my oft-repeated question: if faith alone suffices,
WHY does Jesus demand that you feed the hungry, clothe the naked,
and visit the imprisoned? Why does he say -- absolutely unambiguously --
that you will burn in hell if you do not?
Well?:
|
I JUST answered your question. Re-read my words. YOU are going to
hell if you don't accept Jesus....
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not
believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the
name of God's one and only son." John 3:18 NIV
There isn't any mention of feeding the hungry or taking care of the
poor there.
Indeed, back up two verses to the most referenced verse of the
Bible...John 3:16..."For God so loved the world that he gave his ONE
AND ONLY son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have
eternal life."
Where's the social requirements?
Let's go further in that chapter to John 3:36 NIV, "Whoever believes
in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see
life, for God's wrath REMAINS on him." (remains implies it was
already there)
Nope....no works path to salvation.
So, what work did Christ HIMSELF specify is the sole requirement for
salvation? "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has
sent." John 6:29 NIV
Again..."I tell you the truth, he who believes has eternal life....I
am the living bread that comes down from heaven. If anyone eats of
this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I
will give for the life of the world" John 6:47, 51 NIV
So, have you receive that bread for your sins?
Kenneth Clifton
--
www.2008jesus.com |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
The_Carpathia
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
|
|
On Nov 7, 1:22 pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
| Quote: | In article <d538a6a1-6fab-4801-824c-d704d04c9...@r15g2000prh.googlegroups..com> Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> writes:
On Nov 6, 9:58=A0pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Nov 5, 7:33=A0pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
That
phrase...E Pluribus Unum means "OUT OF MANY ONE"...which Obama just
said was the American Dream.
You have a problem with that?
Welcome to New Babylon.
You are welcome to leave at any time.
Trust me...I expect to be leaving by way of rapture any second.
People have been saying that for many years, indeed many centuries
depending on whatever Biblical interpretation was being used. =A0Their
expectations have proven fruitless.
So will yours. =A0Jesus said we will not know in advance, so your
expectation is itself blasphemous.
Never before in history has so many prophecies come true in so little
time. Within the past few months, we have seen the world's economy
fail (prompting actual discussions of a worldwide currency), worldwide
hatred of Christ among all religions, a leader that came from no where
to be on track to be "President of the world" as recent news articles
suggest that is making promises to both Israel and Islam to bring
peace in Jerusalem ... a leader that made campaign stops in Europe for
a US Presidency, socialism entrenched on all seven continents (a beast
of 666 ... unified man), a religious unity being proposed where all
religions work together but no one can "offend" another by saying
theirs is the only way (thanks to the fairness doctrine coming), and
the world going along with the "leader's" lies without question (the
great delusion) ... even days before the election, major US reporters
in a roundtable said they STILL didn't know what Obama's position was
on almost anything...yet, they voted for him. Then, we have him (in
his acceptance speech) saying this was a victory for mankind, saying
he would attack those that are opposed to world unity, and quoting the
Freemason symbol on the dollar bill as our American Dream. By the
way, right on the dollar bill on the other side (the other half of the
Great Seal) from the words he quoted (as the American dream) is the
unfinished temple...representing the unfinished tower of BABEL and the
words Novus Ordo Seclorum (New World Order).
Babylon is reborn.
If I send you $100 via PayPal today, will you sign over all
your worldly goods to me, effective one year from today's date?
-- cary
|
That's Obama's campaign pitch...isn't it?
Kenneth Clifton
--
www.2008jesus.com |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
The_Carpathia
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:36 am Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
|
|
On Nov 7, 5:36 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
| Quote: | Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
You are welcome to leave at any time.
Trust me...I expect to be leaving by way of rapture any second.
People have been saying that for many years, indeed many centuries
depending on whatever Biblical interpretation was being used. Their
expectations have proven fruitless.
So will yours. Jesus said we will not know in advance, so your
expectation is itself blasphemous.
Never before in history has so many prophecies come true in so little
time.
Bullshit.
Whether a "prophecy" comes true has to do with whether something is
considered a "prophecy", and how it is interpreted. Virtually every
such prophecy you refer to has been considered to have come true many
times in the past.
Within the past few months, we have seen the world's economy
fail (prompting actual discussions of a worldwide currency),
It hasn't failed, and in any case there is no agreement that the
prophecy you think applies is even talking about "the world's
economy".
worldwide hatred of Christ among all religions,
False. Most religions are indifferent. Islam considers Him a
non-divine prophet. Judaism considers Him a false Messiah, one of
many that existed in that timeframe.
a leader that came from no where to be on track to be "President of the world" as recent news articles
suggest
Journalistic metaphor is not religious truth. Obama did not come from
nowhere. Indeed, his ancestry is quite well known.
that is making promises to both Israel and Islam to bring
peace in Jerusalem ...
No such promises. And the Bible doesn't mention Islam, which didn't
exist.
a leader that made campaign stops in Europe for a US Presidency,
So what? The Bible never mentions Europe.
socialism entrenched on all seven continents
The Bible didn't mention seven continents (indeed there is no
agreement on the number of continents). Nor socialism.
(a beast of 666 ... unified man),
Religious blather that could mean anything.
a religious unity being proposed where all religions work together but no one can "offend" another by saying
theirs is the only way
Proposed by whom?
(thanks to the fairness doctrine coming)
The "fairness doctrine" pertains only to politics, and has already
been here. It was repealed, and some want it restored. This is
hardly a sure thing.
and the world going along with the "leader's" lies without question (the
great delusion) ...
What lies?
Putin has already challenged the future administration with respect to
missiles in Europe.
even days before the election, major US reporters
in a roundtable said they STILL didn't know what Obama's position was
on almost anything...
Funny, anyone can read his website and see reams of positions on all
sorts of things.
More was known about Obama before his election than about most
presidents up to the modern era. Presidents didn't even campaign on
their own for much of our history.
yet, they voted for him.
How would you know? Were you in the polling place with them?
In any case, a lot of people vote based on other things besides
"positions".
|
Of course I don't expect YOU to see it. You're under the Great
Delusion and love the darkness more than the light. So...just go on
living in denial. When you see a sudden disappearance of millions,
remember what I said.
Kenneth Clifton
--
www.2008jesus.com |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Kickin' Ass & Takin' Name
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:53 am Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
|
|
On Nov 7, 8:36 pm, The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Nov 7, 5:36 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
You are welcome to leave at any time.
Trust me...I expect to be leaving by way of rapture any second.
People have been saying that for many years, indeed many centuries
depending on whatever Biblical interpretation was being used. Their
expectations have proven fruitless.
So will yours. Jesus said we will not know in advance, so your
expectation is itself blasphemous.
Never before in history has so many prophecies come true in so little
time.
Bullshit.
Whether a "prophecy" comes true has to do with whether something is
considered a "prophecy", and how it is interpreted. Virtually every
such prophecy you refer to has been considered to have come true many
times in the past.
Within the past few months, we have seen the world's economy
fail (prompting actual discussions of a worldwide currency),
It hasn't failed, and in any case there is no agreement that the
prophecy you think applies is even talking about "the world's
economy".
worldwide hatred of Christ among all religions,
False. Most religions are indifferent. Islam considers Him a
non-divine prophet. Judaism considers Him a false Messiah, one of
many that existed in that timeframe.
a leader that came from no where to be on track to be "President of the world" as recent news articles
suggest
Journalistic metaphor is not religious truth. Obama did not come from
nowhere. Indeed, his ancestry is quite well known.
that is making promises to both Israel and Islam to bring
peace in Jerusalem ...
No such promises. And the Bible doesn't mention Islam, which didn't
exist.
a leader that made campaign stops in Europe for a US Presidency,
So what? The Bible never mentions Europe.
socialism entrenched on all seven continents
The Bible didn't mention seven continents (indeed there is no
agreement on the number of continents). Nor socialism.
(a beast of 666 ... unified man),
Religious blather that could mean anything.
a religious unity being proposed where all religions work together but no one can "offend" another by saying
theirs is the only way
Proposed by whom?
(thanks to the fairness doctrine coming)
The "fairness doctrine" pertains only to politics, and has already
been here. It was repealed, and some want it restored. This is
hardly a sure thing.
and the world going along with the "leader's" lies without question (the
great delusion) ...
What lies?
Putin has already challenged the future administration with respect to
missiles in Europe.
even days before the election, major US reporters
in a roundtable said they STILL didn't know what Obama's position was
on almost anything...
Funny, anyone can read his website and see reams of positions on all
sorts of things.
More was known about Obama before his election than about most
presidents up to the modern era. Presidents didn't even campaign on
their own for much of our history.
yet, they voted for him.
How would you know? Were you in the polling place with them?
In any case, a lot of people vote based on other things besides
"positions".
Of course I don't expect YOU to see it. You're under the Great
Delusion and love the darkness more than the light. So...just go on
living in denial. When you see a sudden disappearance of millions,
remember what I said.
Kenneth Clifton
--www.2008jesus.com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
|
Ken:
Let's summarize your ravings:
-- the "new Babylon"
-- saved by the blood
-- ready for the rapture
-- love darkness more than light.
Yep. Looks as though you have swallowed it all.
No use debating with you -- god's on your side.
'Bye. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Cary Kittrell
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:23 am Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
|
|
In article <042d4c77-3011-4820-8012-70abadf33863@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com> The_Carpathia <writingken@yahoo.com> writes:
| Quote: | On Nov 7, 1:25=A0pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <8e4d5152-f8d9-4605-9dc0-cd40d5f40...@d42g2000prb.googlegroups=
.com> Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> writes:
On Nov 7, 12:14=3DA0pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote=
:
In article <eb54dc04-4e49-4f9e-a892-28786f107...@k1g2000prb.googlegro=
ups.=3D
com> The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> writes:
On Nov 6, 8:55=3D3DA0pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) =
wrote:
In article <77a5180f-3bca-44a2-bb0e-1a13c0e14...@c22g2000prc.goog=
legr=3D
oups=3D3D
.com> Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> writes:
Wow.
Here's Jesus: Love your neighbor. Love your enemy. If someone s=
teal=3D
s
your coat, give him your shirt too. Judge not, lest you be judg=
ed.
Are you judging me, Anlatt?
Oh, Ken will just give you some faith-not-works verses.
And the when you ask why, if that's the case, Jesus bothered with=
all
the feed-the-poor, clothe-the-naked stuff in the first place,
Ken will explain:
On the contrary, the God that commands the TITHE (that cannot happe=
n
in a communist government that spreads the wealth)
Silly Ken. =3DA0I keep asking you how those Catholic Churches
in Havana stay in business (hint: not via government
subsidies) and you keep fleeing my question.
(second hint: no form of socialism or communism requires
you to *keep* what you receive)
does indeed give
suggestions about how to live,
"Suggestion"? =3DA0SUGGESTION?
I'd say this is a pretty strong "suggestion", wouldn't you?:
=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, D=
epart from=3D
=A0me, ye
=3DA0 =3DA0 cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and=
his ang=3D
els:
Jesus "suggests" that you give your all for the disenfranchised --
and if you do not, He will "suggest" that you go straight to
Hell.
His words, not mine.
but He only gives ONE WORK for
salvation...by accepting HIS OWN BLOOD for your sins. =3DA0Without =
that
work, no other work will save you. =3DA0Have you done that work?
And He in addition says that if you do NOT also do these other works,=
you
will go to hell for your failures.
Doesn't He?
-- cary
Duh! =A0If you don't accept Christ's blood for your sins, you are gonig
to hell, anyway. =A0However, nowhere does Christ say that works of
righteousness will earn you salvation (which Paul says repeatedly
cannot happen). =A0ONLY the blood of Christ saves you from hell (not
works of righteousness). =A0Have you accepted the blood for your sins?
You have yet to answer my oft-repeated question: if faith alone suffices,
WHY does Jesus demand that you feed the hungry, clothe the naked,
and visit the imprisoned? =A0Why does he say -- absolutely unambiguously =
--
that you will burn in hell if you do not?
Well?:
I JUST answered your question. Re-read my words. YOU are going to
hell if you don't accept Jesus....
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not
believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the
name of God's one and only son." John 3:18 NIV
There isn't any mention of feeding the hungry or taking care of the
poor there.
|
Nope, there isn't. But there most certainly *is* in the section
of Matthew I quoted, and it won't go away no matter how much you
ignore it.
| Quote: |
Indeed, back up two verses to the most referenced verse of the
Bible...John 3:16..."For God so loved the world that he gave his ONE
AND ONLY son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have
eternal life."
Where's the social requirements?
|
In Matthew, where Jesus Himself says it. Remember Him?
| Quote: |
Let's go further in that chapter to John 3:36 NIV, "Whoever believes
in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see
life, for God's wrath REMAINS on him." (remains implies it was
already there)
Nope....no works path to salvation.
|
So WHY DID JESUS SAY IT? I've asked time and again: why
did Jesus say it? You seem to think John's words trump
those of Jesus.
| Quote: |
So, what work did Christ HIMSELF specify is the sole requirement for
salvation? "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has
sent." John 6:29 NIV
Again..."I tell you the truth, he who believes has eternal life....I
am the living bread that comes down from heaven. If anyone eats of
this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I
will give for the life of the world" John 6:47, 51 NIV
|
Then why did Jesus also say that you will be going to hell if you
fail to succor the poor?
C'mon, give that one a try:
And after you've done that -- not that you will, because you can't --
let's take a whack at this one. OK?
14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and
have not works? can faith save him?
15: If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16: And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled;
notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the
body; what doth it profit?
17: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy
faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19: Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also
believe, and tremble.
20: But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered
Isaac his son upon the altar?
22: Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith
made perfect?
23: And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and
it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of
God.
24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith
only.
-- cary
| Quote: |
So, have you receive that bread for your sins?
Kenneth Clifton
--
www.2008jesus.com |
|
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Cary Kittrell
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:23 am Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
|
|
In article <e349ff51-0e45-4f23-a180-4d00c9a0530d@d10g2000pra.googlegroups.com> The_Carpathia <writingken@yahoo.com> writes:
| Quote: | On Nov 7, 1:22=A0pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <d538a6a1-6fab-4801-824c-d704d04c9...@r15g2000prh.googlegroups=
.com> Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> writes:
On Nov 6, 9:58=3DA0pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Nov 5, 7:33=3DA0pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
That
phrase...E Pluribus Unum means "OUT OF MANY ONE"...which Obama ju=
st
said was the American Dream.
You have a problem with that?
Welcome to New Babylon.
You are welcome to leave at any time.
Trust me...I expect to be leaving by way of rapture any second.
People have been saying that for many years, indeed many centuries
depending on whatever Biblical interpretation was being used. =3DA0Th=
eir
expectations have proven fruitless.
So will yours. =3DA0Jesus said we will not know in advance, so your
expectation is itself blasphemous.
Never before in history has so many prophecies come true in so little
time. =A0Within the past few months, we have seen the world's economy
fail (prompting actual discussions of a worldwide currency), worldwide
hatred of Christ among all religions, a leader that came from no where
to be on track to be "President of the world" as recent news articles
suggest that is making promises to both Israel and Islam to bring
peace in Jerusalem ... a leader that made campaign stops in Europe for
a US Presidency, socialism entrenched on all seven continents (a beast
of 666 ... unified man), a religious unity being proposed where all
religions work together but no one can "offend" another by saying
theirs is the only way (thanks to the fairness doctrine coming), and
the world going along with the "leader's" lies without question (the
great delusion) ... even days before the election, major US reporters
in a roundtable said they STILL didn't know what Obama's position was
on almost anything...yet, they voted for him. =A0Then, we have him (in
his acceptance speech) saying this was a victory for mankind, saying
he would attack those that are opposed to world unity, and quoting the
Freemason symbol on the dollar bill as our American Dream. =A0By the
way, right on the dollar bill on the other side (the other half of the
Great Seal) from the words he quoted (as the American dream) is the
unfinished temple...representing the unfinished tower of BABEL and the
words Novus Ordo Seclorum (New World Order).
Babylon is reborn.
If I send you $100 via PayPal today, will you sign over all
your worldly goods to me, effective one year from today's date?
-- cary
That's Obama's campaign pitch...isn't it?
|
No, that's my challenge to the depth of your belief in the
imminence of the Rapture.
Well?
-- cary |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Bob LeChevalier
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:36 am Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
|
|
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | You are welcome to leave at any time.
Trust me...I expect to be leaving by way of rapture any second.
People have been saying that for many years, indeed many centuries
depending on whatever Biblical interpretation was being used. Their
expectations have proven fruitless.
So will yours. Jesus said we will not know in advance, so your
expectation is itself blasphemous.
Never before in history has so many prophecies come true in so little
time.
|
Bullshit.
Whether a "prophecy" comes true has to do with whether something is
considered a "prophecy", and how it is interpreted. Virtually every
such prophecy you refer to has been considered to have come true many
times in the past.
| Quote: | Within the past few months, we have seen the world's economy
fail (prompting actual discussions of a worldwide currency),
|
It hasn't failed, and in any case there is no agreement that the
prophecy you think applies is even talking about "the world's
economy".
| Quote: | worldwide hatred of Christ among all religions,
|
False. Most religions are indifferent. Islam considers Him a
non-divine prophet. Judaism considers Him a false Messiah, one of
many that existed in that timeframe.
| Quote: | a leader that came from no where to be on track to be "President of the world" as recent news articles
suggest
|
Journalistic metaphor is not religious truth. Obama did not come from
nowhere. Indeed, his ancestry is quite well known.
| Quote: | that is making promises to both Israel and Islam to bring
peace in Jerusalem ...
|
No such promises. And the Bible doesn't mention Islam, which didn't
exist.
| Quote: | a leader that made campaign stops in Europe for a US Presidency,
|
So what? The Bible never mentions Europe.
| Quote: | socialism entrenched on all seven continents
|
The Bible didn't mention seven continents (indeed there is no
agreement on the number of continents). Nor socialism.
| Quote: | (a beast of 666 ... unified man),
|
Religious blather that could mean anything.
| Quote: | a religious unity being proposed where all religions work together but no one can "offend" another by saying
theirs is the only way
|
Proposed by whom?
| Quote: | (thanks to the fairness doctrine coming)
|
The "fairness doctrine" pertains only to politics, and has already
been here. It was repealed, and some want it restored. This is
hardly a sure thing.
| Quote: | and the world going along with the "leader's" lies without question (the
great delusion) ...
|
What lies?
Putin has already challenged the future administration with respect to
missiles in Europe.
| Quote: | even days before the election, major US reporters
in a roundtable said they STILL didn't know what Obama's position was
on almost anything...
|
Funny, anyone can read his website and see reams of positions on all
sorts of things.
More was known about Obama before his election than about most
presidents up to the modern era. Presidents didn't even campaign on
their own for much of our history.
| Quote: | yet, they voted for him.
|
How would you know? Were you in the polling place with them?
In any case, a lot of people vote based on other things besides
"positions".
[additional religious blather deleted]
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
lojbab@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Bob LeChevalier
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:49 am Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
|
|
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Nov 6, 10:08 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Oh, Ken will just give you some faith-not-works verses.
And the when you ask why, if that's the case, Jesus bothered with all
the feed-the-poor, clothe-the-naked stuff in the first place,
Ken will explain:
On the contrary, the God that commands the TITHE (that cannot happen
in a communist government that spreads the wealth)
But can happen in a United States government that spreads the wealth.
Answering for Cary, again, I see. Have YOU accepted the blood of
Christ for salvation, Christ's only given method for salvation?
|
Yes.
How is that relevant to whether it is possible to tithe in the United
States, or in a communist country, for that matter.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
lojbab@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
The_Carpathia
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:12 am Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
|
|
On Nov 7, 9:42 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
| Quote: | The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Duh! If you don't accept Christ's blood for your sins, you are gonig
to hell, anyway. However, nowhere does Christ say that works of
righteousness will earn you salvation (which Paul says repeatedly
cannot happen). ONLY the blood of Christ saves you from hell (not
works of righteousness). Have you accepted the blood for your sins?
You have yet to answer my oft-repeated question: if faith alone suffices,
WHY does Jesus demand that you feed the hungry, clothe the naked,
and visit the imprisoned? Why does he say -- absolutely unambiguously --
that you will burn in hell if you do not?
Well?:
I JUST answered your question. Re-read my words. YOU are going to
hell if you don't accept Jesus....
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned,
Easily dealt with. The mark of belief is that you do what he says.
Otherwise you are a liar and a hypocrite.
|
The rest of that verse is that those that do not believe are CONDEMNED
ALREADY since they rejected the Christ, since you deleted it.
| Quote: | There isn't any mention of feeding the hungry or taking care of the
poor there.
You ignore the other verses that do require it. Your method of
reconciling the two is to ignore the one by claiming that mere faith
is sufficient. But that is hardly the only interpretation, and indeed
if that was all there was to it, the New Testament would be a
paragraph long.
|
There ARE no verses saying that works can earn salvation...NONE. Give
me ONE verse from the New Testament that says salvation can be earned
by good works without accepting Christ....just ONE.
| Quote: | Indeed, back up two verses to the most referenced verse of the
Bible...John 3:16..."For God so loved the world that he gave his ONE
AND ONLY son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have
eternal life."
Where's the social requirements?
In the rest of the Bible that you ignore when convenient, but blather
about when it suits your perverted interpretation.
|
As I said, give me ONE verse that says salvation can come from works
without accepting Christ.
| Quote: | Let's go further in that chapter to John 3:36 NIV, "Whoever believes
in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see
life, for God's wrath REMAINS on him." (remains implies it was
already there)
Nope....no works path to salvation.
Not relevant. The question is not whether "works" are sufficient, but
whether they are necessary in addition to faith.
|
Actually, that is NOT what the topic is. Go up the thread. Cary (or
yourself posing as Cary) said that lack of works would send you to
hell. I said that without Christ we are ALREADY on track to hell.
So, it wouldn't matter if we had works or not. Salvation from hell
comes from accepting the blood of Christ. Works beyond that are
great, but they are the escape from the eternal punishment and eternal
flame and eternal worm of hell. Do YOU have the blood of Christ to
save you from your sins?
| Quote: | So, what work did Christ HIMSELF specify is the sole requirement for
salvation? "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has
sent." John 6:29 NIV
That is not what the verse says, since the verse does not mention
salvation at all.
|
In verse 27, Christ tells someone to work for the food that leads to
eternal life. In verse 28, he asks what that work is. In verse 29
(above), Christ tells him. THAT is the only work God requires for
salvation.
| Quote: | Again..."I tell you the truth, he who believes has eternal life....I
am the living bread that comes down from heaven. If anyone eats of
this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I
will give for the life of the world" John 6:47, 51 NIV
But if you do not do the works, your belief is a lie.
|
Works are irrelevant. If your belief is a lie, you are going to hell
for not accepting Christ in truth...not for failing to do works that
cannot save on their own.
Kenneth Clifton
--
www.2008jesus.com |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
The_Carpathia
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:26 am Post subject: Re: A Few Samples from the Babylonian Birth Speech (Obama's |
|
|
On Nov 7, 10:23 pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
| Quote: | In article <042d4c77-3011-4820-8012-70abadf33...@r15g2000prh.googlegroups..com> The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> writes:
On Nov 7, 1:25=A0pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <8e4d5152-f8d9-4605-9dc0-cd40d5f40...@d42g2000prb.googlegroups> > .com> Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> writes:
On Nov 7, 12:14=3DA0pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote> > :
In article <eb54dc04-4e49-4f9e-a892-28786f107...@k1g2000prb.googlegro> > ups.=3D
com> The_Carpathia <writing...@yahoo.com> writes:
On Nov 6, 8:55=3D3DA0pm, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) > > wrote:
In article <77a5180f-3bca-44a2-bb0e-1a13c0e14...@c22g2000prc.goog> > legr=3D
oups=3D3D
.com> Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> writes:
Wow.
Here's Jesus: Love your neighbor. Love your enemy. If someone s> > teal=3D
s
your coat, give him your shirt too. Judge not, lest you be judg> > ed.
Are you judging me, Anlatt?
Oh, Ken will just give you some faith-not-works verses.
And the when you ask why, if that's the case, Jesus bothered with> > all
the feed-the-poor, clothe-the-naked stuff in the first place,
Ken will explain:
On the contrary, the God that commands the TITHE (that cannot happe> > n
in a communist government that spreads the wealth)
Silly Ken. =3DA0I keep asking you how those Catholic Churches
in Havana stay in business (hint: not via government
subsidies) and you keep fleeing my question.
(second hint: no form of socialism or communism requires
you to *keep* what you receive)
does indeed give
suggestions about how to live,
"Suggestion"? =3DA0SUGGESTION?
I'd say this is a pretty strong "suggestion", wouldn't you?:
=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, D> > epart from=3D
=A0me, ye
=3DA0 =3DA0 cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and> > his ang=3D
els:
Jesus "suggests" that you give your all for the disenfranchised --
and if you do not, He will "suggest" that you go straight to
Hell.
His words, not mine.
but He only gives ONE WORK for
salvation...by accepting HIS OWN BLOOD for your sins. =3DA0Without > > that
work, no other work will save you. =3DA0Have you done that work?
And He in addition says that if you do NOT also do these other works,> > you
will go to hell for your failures.
Doesn't He?
-- cary
Duh! =A0If you don't accept Christ's blood for your sins, you are gonig
to hell, anyway. =A0However, nowhere does Christ say that works of
righteousness will earn you salvation (which Paul says repeatedly
cannot happen). =A0ONLY the blood of Christ saves you from hell (not
works of righteousness). =A0Have you accepted the blood for your sins?
You have yet to answer my oft-repeated question: if faith alone suffices,
WHY does Jesus demand that you feed the hungry, clothe the naked,
and visit the imprisoned? =A0Why does he say -- absolutely unambiguously > > --
that you will burn in hell if you do not?
Well?:
I JUST answered your question. Re-read my words. YOU are going to
hell if you don't accept Jesus....
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not
believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the
name of God's one and only son." John 3:18 NIV
There isn't any mention of feeding the hungry or taking care of the
poor there.
Nope, there isn't. But there most certainly *is* in the section
of Matthew I quoted, and it won't go away no matter how much you
ignore it.
|
Actually, that passage is completely in line with my post. The
Matthew 25 passage ... indeed, even the part you quote from ... says
that sins against the least of mankind are taken by God as sins
against God, Himself. Therefore, EVERYONE that has sinned against
anyone has sentenced themselves to hell....EVERYONE. That's why we
need Jesus. Without Jesus to pay for our sins, we ALL are destined
for hell.
| Quote: | Indeed, back up two verses to the most referenced verse of the
Bible...John 3:16..."For God so loved the world that he gave his ONE
AND ONLY son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have
eternal life."
Where's the social requirements?
In Matthew, where Jesus Himself says it. Remember Him?
|
That passage doesn't say that works earn you salvation, and this one
clearly says the requirement is accepting Christ. Are you going to
reject Christ's own given requirement, here in John?
| Quote: | Let's go further in that chapter to John 3:36 NIV, "Whoever believes
in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see
life, for God's wrath REMAINS on him." (remains implies it was
already there)
Nope....no works path to salvation.
So WHY DID JESUS SAY IT? I've asked time and again: why
did Jesus say it? You seem to think John's words trump
those of Jesus.
|
Almost every quote I give you here is FROM Jesus, saying that
accepting Christ is the path to salvation, while you have yet to show
me where Christ, Himself, contradicted himself by saying it can be
accomplished by works without Him.
| Quote: | So, what work did Christ HIMSELF specify is the sole requirement for
salvation? "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has
sent." John 6:29 NIV
Again..."I tell you the truth, he who believes has eternal life....I
am the living bread that comes down from heaven. If anyone eats of
this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I
will give for the life of the world" John 6:47, 51 NIV
Then why did Jesus also say that you will be going to hell if you
fail to succor the poor?
|
You are intentionally ignoring my answer...aren't you? Without Christ
we are ALL goind go hell...works or no works. That's why the verse
above says without Christ God's wrath REMAINS upon us. That's why
John 3:18 said we are ALREADY condemned. Without Christ, you WILL
INDEED go to hell for failure to do works. However, those works are
never given as the path to salvation. The blood of Christ for your
sins does. Do you have that payment for your sins?
Kenneth Clifton
--
www.2008jesus.com |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
